Consumer Reports finds some newer cars burn too much oil
#31
Lexus Fanatic
If you look at the majority of the Owners' Manuals in most new vehicles, while admittedly not identical (because not all engines are identical), they say more or less the same thing about the break-in period. That part of the manual is determined by engineers, not lawyers.
#32
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
If you look at the majority of the Owners' Manuals in most new vehicles, while admittedly not identical (because not all engines are identical), they say more or less the same thing about the break-in period. That part of the manual is determined by engineers, not lawyers.
#33
Lexus Fanatic
That said, though, I'm certainly not discounting the effect of the lawyers. My brother, for instance, just got a new Kia Sportage, and, out of probably 400+ pages in the manual, from a quick brush-through that I gave it, probably 75% of the manual is classic lawyer-speak, telling people to do or not do things in a certain way.
#34
Pardon me if I seem to be hijacking the thread. But since the talk has started about the engine oil consumption and improper breaking in, I find that I will have no better time to ask this question. The answer is important to me as I recently acquired a new car a week ago.
If proper breaking in is important to maintain the longevity of the engine performance, and a good breaking in involves proper seating of seals and other friction parts in the engine, why should we not do an oil change at 1000 miles?
I have been told by many engines are already broken in and those oil changes are unnecessary early on. That may as well be true, but then why would we need the proper early engine breaking in procedures and not complete it by doing an oil change to remove the offending shavings early on? Is the environment the only consideration for these manufacturers to not suggest an oil change at 1,000 miles?
Thanks. Like everyone here, I am trying to elongate my engine maintenance life, and the cost of an oil change isn't much of a bother for me. i just don't want to be a fool in doing it.
If proper breaking in is important to maintain the longevity of the engine performance, and a good breaking in involves proper seating of seals and other friction parts in the engine, why should we not do an oil change at 1000 miles?
I have been told by many engines are already broken in and those oil changes are unnecessary early on. That may as well be true, but then why would we need the proper early engine breaking in procedures and not complete it by doing an oil change to remove the offending shavings early on? Is the environment the only consideration for these manufacturers to not suggest an oil change at 1,000 miles?
Thanks. Like everyone here, I am trying to elongate my engine maintenance life, and the cost of an oil change isn't much of a bother for me. i just don't want to be a fool in doing it.
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Pardon me if I seem to be hijacking the thread. But since the talk has started about the engine oil consumption and improper breaking in, I find that I will have no better time to ask this question. The answer is important to me as I recently acquired a new car a week ago.
If proper breaking in is important to maintain the longevity of the engine performance, and a good breaking in involves proper seating of seals and other friction parts in the engine, why should we not do an oil change at 1000 miles?
I have been told by many engines are already broken in and those oil changes are unnecessary early on. That may as well be true, but then why would we need the proper early engine breaking in procedures and not complete it by doing an oil change to remove the offending shavings early on? Is the environment the only consideration for these manufacturers to not suggest an oil change at 1,000 miles?
Thanks. Like everyone here, I am trying to elongate my engine maintenance life, and the cost of an oil change isn't much of a bother for me. i just don't want to be a fool in doing it.
If proper breaking in is important to maintain the longevity of the engine performance, and a good breaking in involves proper seating of seals and other friction parts in the engine, why should we not do an oil change at 1000 miles?
I have been told by many engines are already broken in and those oil changes are unnecessary early on. That may as well be true, but then why would we need the proper early engine breaking in procedures and not complete it by doing an oil change to remove the offending shavings early on? Is the environment the only consideration for these manufacturers to not suggest an oil change at 1,000 miles?
Thanks. Like everyone here, I am trying to elongate my engine maintenance life, and the cost of an oil change isn't much of a bother for me. i just don't want to be a fool in doing it.
Today, minute production tolerances have lessened the need for (but not totally eliminated) the formal break-in. The oil still gets some particles in it, though not as much, so that, in most cases, it's safe to go a few thousand miles until the first change. But I still wouldn't let it go too far, computer-monitors or not.
One thing that is causing oil use problems in today's cars is that the oil-use monitors, because today's oils are so good and long-lasting, tend to stretch out change-intervals so long that engines are using a quart or two during those long intervals between the computer-required changes. An engine, on average, may use a quart in 3000 or 4000 miles. But, with the computer stretching out the oil changes to longer intervals than that, it becomes important to pull up that dipstick once and while and keep an eye on the oil-level, as some computers don't do that for you....they monitor the condition of the oil that is left in the crankcase.
(That's one reason why, when I do an auto review, I routinely comment on how easy or difficult underhood components, including dipsticks and filler-caps, are for the average DYI to access)
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-03-15 at 07:58 AM.
#36
Today, minute production tolerances have lessened the need for (but not totally eliminated) the formal break-in. The oil still gets some particles in it, though not as much, so that, in most cases, it's safe to go a few thousand miles until the first change. But I still wouldn't let it go too far, computer-monitors or not.
One thing that is causing oil use problems in today's cars is that the oil-use monitors, because today's oils are so good and long-lasting, tend to stretch out change-intervals so long that engines are using a quart or two during those long intervals between the computer-required changes. An engine, on average, may use a quart in 3000 or 4000 miles. But, with the computer stretching out the oil changes to longer intervals than that, it becomes important to pull up that dipstick once and while and keep an eye on the oil-level, as some computers don't do that for you....they monitor the condition of the oil that is left in the crankcase.
One thing that is causing oil use problems in today's cars is that the oil-use monitors, because today's oils are so good and long-lasting, tend to stretch out change-intervals so long that engines are using a quart or two during those long intervals between the computer-required changes. An engine, on average, may use a quart in 3000 or 4000 miles. But, with the computer stretching out the oil changes to longer intervals than that, it becomes important to pull up that dipstick once and while and keep an eye on the oil-level, as some computers don't do that for you....they monitor the condition of the oil that is left in the crankcase.
I haven't read enough information on what these on-board computers monitor regarding oil quality and quantity, or what level of analyses do they do. And I am reluctant to blindly follow it without knowing it properly.
Plus today's many passenger vehicles seem to be also getting rid of engine temperature gauges and replacing with a light, which when lit basically says the engine is now damaged from heat. One of the reasons all my engines have lived long is that I have taken immediate corrective measures when I found the engine heating up close to the upper end of its average operating range. I don't have an option now with no temperature gauges.
Now if the engine's gremlins were all solved, I could understand the move. But apparently, as CR suggests, the engine related problems are far from over.
#37
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i know of no manufacturer or auto mechanic that says do the first oil change early (e.g., 1k).
modern car engines are typically THRASHED (high rpm for long time and cycling up/down) at the factory before being shipped. they're probably abused worse than you ever will.
if you're the kind of person who takes Echinacea when you think you might get a cold, go ahead and change the oil early, but i think it's a waste of time and money.
modern car engines are typically THRASHED (high rpm for long time and cycling up/down) at the factory before being shipped. they're probably abused worse than you ever will.
if you're the kind of person who takes Echinacea when you think you might get a cold, go ahead and change the oil early, but i think it's a waste of time and money.
#38
Lexus Fanatic
I haven't read enough information on what these on-board computers monitor regarding oil quality and quantity, or what level of analyses do they do. And I am reluctant to blindly follow it without knowing it properly.
Plus today's many passenger vehicles seem to be also getting rid of engine temperature gauges and replacing with a light, which when lit basically says the engine is now damaged from heat. One of the reasons all my engines have lived long is that I have taken immediate corrective measures when I found the engine heating up close to the upper end of its average operating range. I don't have an option now with no temperature gauges.
Now if the engine's gremlins were all solved, I could understand the move. But apparently, as CR suggests, the engine related problems are far from over.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-03-15 at 09:00 AM.
#39
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Plus today's many passenger vehicles seem to be also getting rid of engine temperature gauges and replacing with a light, which when lit basically says the engine is now damaged from heat. One of the reasons all my engines have lived long is that I have taken immediate corrective measures when I found the engine heating up close to the upper end of its average operating range. I don't have an option now with no temperature gauges.
Now if the engine's gremlins were all solved, I could understand the move.
But apparently, as CR suggests, the engine related problems are far from over.
#40
i know of no manufacturer or auto mechanic that says do the first oil change early (e.g., 1k).
modern car engines are typically THRASHED (high rpm for long time and cycling up/down) at the factory before being shipped. they're probably abused worse than you ever will.
if you're the kind of person who takes Echinacea when you think you might get a cold, go ahead and change the oil early, but i think it's a waste of time and money.
modern car engines are typically THRASHED (high rpm for long time and cycling up/down) at the factory before being shipped. they're probably abused worse than you ever will.
if you're the kind of person who takes Echinacea when you think you might get a cold, go ahead and change the oil early, but i think it's a waste of time and money.
Last edited by LoveCT; 07-03-15 at 12:01 PM.
#41
Lexus Fanatic
So I decided to look up the owners manual of our LX450 in regards to break in as well as engine oil consumption.
Here is what is listed.
BREAK IN:
Drive Gently and avoid high speeds
Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break in. But following a few simple steps for the first 1000 miles can add to the future economy and long life of your vehicle.
1. Do not drive over 55mph
2. Run the engine at moderate speeds between 2000 and 4000 rpm
3. Avoid full throttle starts
4. Try to avoid hard stops for 300km
5. Do not drive at a single speed for long times
6. Do not tow for 500 miles.
FACTS ABOUT ENGINE OIL
It is normal that an engine should consume oil during normal operation. The cause of oil consumption in a normal engine is as follows.
1 (short answer). Engine oil burns becuase of high temps on the cylinder walls.
2. Some oil is sucked into the combustion chamber with the intake air and is burned alongside the fuel.
3. More oil is burned at high speed driving
4. More oil is burned during frequent acceleration and deceleration.
5.(I knew CR was full of it) A NEW ENGINE CONSUMES MORE OIL since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned.
6. The amount of oil burned depends on the viscosity of the oil
Toyota recommends checking the oil every time you refuel your vehicle.
Here is what is listed.
BREAK IN:
Drive Gently and avoid high speeds
Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break in. But following a few simple steps for the first 1000 miles can add to the future economy and long life of your vehicle.
1. Do not drive over 55mph
2. Run the engine at moderate speeds between 2000 and 4000 rpm
3. Avoid full throttle starts
4. Try to avoid hard stops for 300km
5. Do not drive at a single speed for long times
6. Do not tow for 500 miles.
FACTS ABOUT ENGINE OIL
It is normal that an engine should consume oil during normal operation. The cause of oil consumption in a normal engine is as follows.
1 (short answer). Engine oil burns becuase of high temps on the cylinder walls.
2. Some oil is sucked into the combustion chamber with the intake air and is burned alongside the fuel.
3. More oil is burned at high speed driving
4. More oil is burned during frequent acceleration and deceleration.
5.(I knew CR was full of it) A NEW ENGINE CONSUMES MORE OIL since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned.
6. The amount of oil burned depends on the viscosity of the oil
Toyota recommends checking the oil every time you refuel your vehicle.
#42
So I decided to look up the owners manual of our LX450 in regards to break in as well as engine oil consumption.
Here is what is listed.
BREAK IN:
Drive Gently and avoid high speeds
Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break in. But following a few simple steps for the first 1000 miles can add to the future economy and long life of your vehicle.
1. Do not drive over 55mph
2. Run the engine at moderate speeds between 2000 and 4000 rpm
3. Avoid full throttle starts
4. Try to avoid hard stops for 300km
5. Do not drive at a single speed for long times
6. Do not tow for 500 miles.
FACTS ABOUT ENGINE OIL
It is normal that an engine should consume oil during normal operation. The cause of oil consumption in a normal engine is as follows.
1 (short answer). Engine oil burns becuase of high temps on the cylinder walls.
2. Some oil is sucked into the combustion chamber with the intake air and is burned alongside the fuel.
3. More oil is burned at high speed driving
4. More oil is burned during frequent acceleration and deceleration.
5.(I knew CR was full of it) A NEW ENGINE CONSUMES MORE OIL since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned.
6. The amount of oil burned depends on the viscosity of the oil
Toyota recommends checking the oil every time you refuel your vehicle.
Here is what is listed.
BREAK IN:
Drive Gently and avoid high speeds
Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break in. But following a few simple steps for the first 1000 miles can add to the future economy and long life of your vehicle.
1. Do not drive over 55mph
2. Run the engine at moderate speeds between 2000 and 4000 rpm
3. Avoid full throttle starts
4. Try to avoid hard stops for 300km
5. Do not drive at a single speed for long times
6. Do not tow for 500 miles.
FACTS ABOUT ENGINE OIL
It is normal that an engine should consume oil during normal operation. The cause of oil consumption in a normal engine is as follows.
1 (short answer). Engine oil burns becuase of high temps on the cylinder walls.
2. Some oil is sucked into the combustion chamber with the intake air and is burned alongside the fuel.
3. More oil is burned at high speed driving
4. More oil is burned during frequent acceleration and deceleration.
5.(I knew CR was full of it) A NEW ENGINE CONSUMES MORE OIL since its pistons and walls are not yet conditioned.
6. The amount of oil burned depends on the viscosity of the oil
Toyota recommends checking the oil every time you refuel your vehicle.
10%-20%?
I avoid full throttle starts and vary highway speeds which changes RPM.
Always went over 55MPH.Even up to 80MPH.
I've owned many new vehicles and never had any issues.
Avoid panic stops if possible for better brake bedding.
These engines are probably redlined for testing.
#43
And my 2015 Toyota Sienna V6 3.5 with 0W20 oil suggested almost the same thing:
A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
●When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine
●If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used
●When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently
●When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic
On breaking in:
To extend the life of the vehicle, observing the following precautions is recommended:
●For the first 200 miles (300 km):
Avoid sudden stops.
●For the first 500 miles (800 km):
Do not tow a trailer.
●For the first 1000 miles (1600 km):
• Do not drive at extremely high speeds.
• Avoid sudden acceleration.
• Do not drive continuously in low gears.
• Do not drive at a constant speed for extended periods.
A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
●When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine
●If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used
●When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently
●When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic
On breaking in:
To extend the life of the vehicle, observing the following precautions is recommended:
●For the first 200 miles (300 km):
Avoid sudden stops.
●For the first 500 miles (800 km):
Do not tow a trailer.
●For the first 1000 miles (1600 km):
• Do not drive at extremely high speeds.
• Avoid sudden acceleration.
• Do not drive continuously in low gears.
• Do not drive at a constant speed for extended periods.
#44
Lexus Fanatic
I think CR needs to put out a media advisory or article that CR might be full of it
2014 Corolla manual states:
A certain amount of enigne oil will be consumed while driving AND ENGINE OIL MAY NEED TO BE REFILLED between maintenance intervals.
High speeds consume more oil
Long idling
when engine is new
2014 Corolla manual states:
A certain amount of enigne oil will be consumed while driving AND ENGINE OIL MAY NEED TO BE REFILLED between maintenance intervals.
High speeds consume more oil
Long idling
when engine is new
#45
Lexus Fanatic
And my 2015 Toyota Sienna V6 3.5 with 0W20 oil suggested almost the same thing:
A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
●When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine
●If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used
●When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently
●When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic
On breaking in:
To extend the life of the vehicle, observing the following precautions is recommended:
●For the first 200 miles (300 km):
Avoid sudden stops.
●For the first 500 miles (800 km):
Do not tow a trailer.
●For the first 1000 miles (1600 km):
• Do not drive at extremely high speeds.
• Avoid sudden acceleration.
• Do not drive continuously in low gears.
• Do not drive at a constant speed for extended periods.
A certain amount of engine oil will be consumed while driving. In the following situations, oil consumption may increase, and engine oil may need to be refilled in between oil maintenance intervals.
●When the engine is new, for example directly after purchasing the vehicle or after replacing the engine
●If low quality oil or oil of an inappropriate viscosity is used
●When driving at high engine speeds or with a heavy load, when towing, or when driving while accelerating or decelerating frequently
●When leaving the engine idling for a long time, or when driving frequently through heavy traffic
On breaking in:
To extend the life of the vehicle, observing the following precautions is recommended:
●For the first 200 miles (300 km):
Avoid sudden stops.
●For the first 500 miles (800 km):
Do not tow a trailer.
●For the first 1000 miles (1600 km):
• Do not drive at extremely high speeds.
• Avoid sudden acceleration.
• Do not drive continuously in low gears.
• Do not drive at a constant speed for extended periods.
I still stand by my comments that CR is full of it and where trying to grab headlines with their false claims.