RNM GS3

In terms of what besides reliability?
It has so many holes in its lineup and very limited options on the models it does offer.

Toys4RJill

I certainly do not agree with you. Lexus does reliability well, but if I am going to get a luxury car, Im gonna lease it so it makes no difference to me how reliable Lexus is.

Anything north of $50K MB, Audi, and BMW do high end so much better

spwolf

Well, Toyota does want to build best cars that are most profitable... I dont think their goal is to be #1 in volume in every segment, sales come from those first points.

Otherwise, they could always be less profitable and sell a lot more cars if they lowered the prices and/or upped equipment/engines.

For instance, last FY 2014, Toyota group had operating margin of 9.2%... VW brand had operating margin of 2%.

So far, both RC and NX are tracking above estimates, so clearly they are very happy with the numbers... I am also sure 2.0t shaving off at least $2k-$3k (?) price will make its numbers go up since it is more expensive than A5 that it outsells and 4 series that it does not... 4 series also has 4 door and convertible that make up around 50% of model sales too.

p.s. looking at 435i Coupe stock situation vs RC350, i feel confident saying that RC350 outsells or at least matches 435i coupe but i also dont think 2.0t will have as much share in sales of RC as 428i has or for instance IS250/350. I am having hard time believing it will triple the sales, quite likely a lot of people that are buying RC350 right now will simply pick cheaper RC200t... but that would be interesting stat to watch.

spwolf

I am sure that all those people buying 4cly 3/4 series care about options that you and me care about.

Shocking news, Lexus sells almost 2x 6 cyl and 8cly engined models than BMW in the USA. BMW has became 4cly brand when we look at volume. I dont think those buyers are caring too much about high end options that Lexus does miss on cars more expensive than $70k-$80k.

RNM GS3

In regards to the 4cyl, this will be true of Lexus very soon as well - they are just WAY behind in turbo engine development.
They are already putting in GS, IS, RC, NX - these will be the volume models eventually. Although since its not compatible with AWD...... oops another miscue there.

Lexus has nothing to compete with cars at the very top that are 75k+
In NYC - there are a ton of 650i especially GranCoupes and 750Li, even the new X5 - i mostly see in the 50i trim. So im not sure where u get ur figures that Lexus sell more V8s?
Forget about Performance variants - M3,M4,M5,M6,X5M,X6M, Alpina 6 and 7 etc

Mr. Burns

Lexus is not behind in turbo engine development, they develop their own turbos, whereas BMW outsources to Mitsubishi and others.

Those models sell in tiny numbers, the 6er sells 200-300 units a month unless BMW is having a fire sale on them.

What you see on the road in your market and what the sales figures indicate nationwide are different.

spwolf

Checked cars.com for nationwide inventory - cars.com probably shows 90%+ of nationwide inventory for both brands, so it is good way to check individual model sales.

I think we can agree that those 4cly buyers could care less about 650i or 750Li or individual customizations not possible with Lexus. They are there for low price and the badge.

BMW vs Lexus
4cly: 32k vs 8k
6cly: 17k vs 32k
8cly: 4.3k vs 5.2k

As usual, BMW has way bigger inventory than Lexus too... cars.com lists 55k BMW's and 46k Lexii despite being close in overall sales for the year.

So I will agree with you that BMW has way better options for people buying 80k+ vehicles, although Lexus IS improving there... however, most BMW's are 4cly right now, BY FAR, so those people car really little about all those options that Lexus is missing.

Mr. Burns

You can also go to autotrader.com and set the location to nationwide and allow only new cars to be shown, that would be a more accurate assessment.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

the 4gc looks far better than 3gt man. the 3gt rear end is just horrible (just like the 5gt)

yamaha develops the engine for isf and lfa, so is that good or bad for toyota?

lexus is behind in turbo engine lineup i think that's pretty clear. it doesn't matter if they develop their own or not, we all know they have toyota supra tt from the 90s. but they don't have a lot of turbo cars in the lineup, that's what people care

Mr. Burns

No one is saying "good or bad".

The point is developing your own turbo to standards that are expected from buyers of your brand will take longer than using outside suppliers.

Toyota would not be "behind" BMW, MB and others if they had decided to outsource their turbos as well, but those third party suppliers probably don't meet the requirements Lexus has.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

doesn't make it half an excuse when they have had it for the past 2 decades

natnut

hahaha RNM GS3, the resident BMW apologist got owned so bad.

Mr. Burns

I don't think Toyota wants to put the same turbo used in a mid 90s Supra into their 2016 flagship Lexus...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

did i say "same turbo"? you are talking about technology and that's what i am talking about. they have had turbo technology (a very good one, mind you) for 2 decades and they still come out slow now. "developing their own" can hardly be a good excuse, no matter how you spin it

Mr. Burns

Sure it's an excuse by simple fact that it takes longer to develop your own turbo than it does to source one off the shelf. You are arguing that Toyota should be able to develop its own turbos and come to market at the same rate as the Germans who are outsourcing their turbos. This makes no sense.