chrisexv6

The press release you linked explained the safety systems that will be part of the Safety System+ package.

Every one of them is available in the current ES, and the only difference between Lexus's versions and the ones in the Acura is in the lane keep: ES only has "lane departure warning", TLX physically puts you back in the lane. Other than that, I see nothing safety-wise on the '16 ES thats not already available. And just to be sure, I actually drove a '15 ES with every one of those safety features. And FWIW, the parking sensor setup in the ES is far better, and I dont think ANY Acura has the auto highbeams (not a big deal, just figured Id point it out)

It doesnt look like they are adding/improving, they are literally just repackaging. Again, it makes sense, because thats what Acura did for their '16 models (AcuraWatch) and Honda did too (HondaSense)

I hear you on the interior improvements. I would love to see them in person, but I doubt thats going to happen before the car shows up at dealers. FWIW, the current interior on the ES felt loads nicer than the interior on the TLX, so I would be completely satisfied with whats there now as well.

And while I think the front end changes arent bad, the primary owner/driver (wife) doesn't like them at all. Its her car, she needs to be happy with it, so the best I can do is try and take advantage of pricing on a '15 as they (hopefully) try to clear them out for the 16s.

spwolf

Erghefhg.

So if both TLX and ES have 4 tires, they are same cars? All cars have brakes, hence they all brake the same?

Because difference in safety sense+ and crap that is in ES right now is huge. ES right now will not properly avoid accident, it will just slow down vehicle before crash... new system will employ much larger braking force, sooner and actually avoid collision.

Performance wise, current ES system is CRAP. New safety sense+ is industry leading when it comes to slowing down vehicle before accident occurs.

So just because Acura, Lexus, Ford, VW and who knows else, have systems that are called the same, it does not mean that they perform the same... they perform significantly different and those differences are simply huge right now.

So if safety is something thats really important to you, then wait for new model. Now if you dont care about it, then 15 is fine. But they are nowhere the same systems.

chrisexv6

All Im saying is that the press releases do not talk about new versions of the existing systems, just that the existing are being packaged into one and sold as an option.

And no, just because they have 4 tires they arent the same. You mentioned that the ES safety systems arent up to industry standards, so I referred to the TLX because thats what Im putting the ES up against. I dont think either the ES or the TLX "actively avoid a collision".

The TLX collision system does the same as the ES: pre-tension the seatbelts and apply light braking, heavier braking as it gets closer to bring the car to a stop. It does not use the Lane Keep setup to steer you out of a collision.

http://www.acura.com/features.aspx?m...braking_system

Now, if the ES system doesnt actually work, thats another story. But our dealer took the tester we had and tested out the collision system. It worked as expected....it was a "code brown" because who the hell wants to be headed too fast at a stationary object, but the car did stop in time.

spwolf

Here are examples of current IS with old safety system - at 40kmh, it crashes. Then new Corolla, with new system that is actually less advanced than one in new Lexus, it stops at higher speed of 50kmh.

Safety Sense + should be more advanced than Toyota system due to more expensive type of radar used, which enables all speed auto brake, better brake performance (by 30%), and better recognition (pedestrians).

chrisexv6

Now THAT is very interesting.

Why is Lexus not mentioning an improvement? I understand its kinda like saying "it wont really work right now but the new one will actually work" but I figure they could word it somehow that shows its different.

spwolf

they did outline all the features in PRs... but you have to watch testing results (currently IIHS, EuroNCAP and JNCAP are testing) to actually see the performance. Everyone is PR'ing the same thing, but results are vastly different.

If you are reading PRs and small notes, you will see that the differences are in maximum force (30kmh in Toyota, 40kmh in Lexus), as well as at what speeds it works - for instance new Toyotas do 10-80kmh, while Lexus safety sense+ works at any speed.

Most people are not aware that there are any differences, let alone significant ones... for instance latest expensive Honda system from this year pretty much crashed at all speeds (but slowed down) where Corolla's cheap system stopped in all situations. If you read brochure, you would think Honda's is much more advanced with all the acronyms related to lane assistance, all speed cruise control, traffic this and that, etc, etc.

So unless you gotta buy car today, waiting for 2 months if buying Toyota or Lexus is worth it, especially since these systems are between $500 and $635 in Lexus (and $300-$500 in Toyota), vs $1.5-$3k before

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

I never like Acura recent designs, but the new TLX is really a sharp looking car. I would choose the Acura over ES.

chrisexv6

No doubt.

On my list of pros and cons for each vehicle, "design" is a pro on the Acura and a con on the ES.

Picking up a loaner from the Lex dealer today to keep for a day and let the wife drive around doing errands.

Hopefully an Acura dealer extends me the same courtesy (the one we were working with went scarce after I asked for a TLX for more than an hour)

chrisexv6

UPDATE:

So we finally got our hands on a TLX for a day. Had to drive 30 miles away but I did get one. And the 30 mile trip back home was a good chance to mess with it.

The ride is firm, much like the ES350 test drive we had (it had the 18s, our loaner-for-a-day had the 17s). Wife does not like it....at least on the Lex I could "fix" it with the 17" wheels.

Interior materials are OK....a few cheap things where you can touch, much like the console plastic in the ES. Feels odd to say, but the plastic in the ES felt "better" than the plastic in the TLX.

The tech stuff and how its implemented is well beyond the Lexus. It works and feels a lot more modern, but I still hate the touchscreen. You get used to the steering wheel controls very quickly, mostly because you HAVE to. I do like how it overlays the nav steps into the instrument panel center screen.

Wife had issues looking out the rear window to back out. She has never had a vehicle with backup cam, so her "ramp up" time will still require a window to look out of. The TLX window is BIG, but the angle of it and the rear head rests get in the way of the view. She felt a lot more comfortable with the ES.

Open cupholders - a pet peeve of mine. Cupholders in the center console should be able to be hidden. Its not an econobox, its a friggen $40K+ car.

Biggest negative - the 9 speed tranny. It really feels like its holding the car back, a lot. The car does not feel like it has almost 300HP. The wife complained on her first drive that she has to "hit the gas a lot just to get it going". When I tried the same thing it was obvious that its the car shifting through the first 2 or 3 gears on takeoff. If you really lean into it its not so bad, but if you drive like she does (no hurry!) it really takes a while to get up to speed. Even in Sport+ where it will wind out the gears for you, when you lean into the throttle it feels like you are driving out of mud. This car had 68 miles on it, for whatever that means. Some say the real lag comes after a few K miles of driving, but this one seems to have it out of the box.

Overall it looks like the ES is our next car. Just need to figure out the color combo (while I love the Starfire Pearl, our loaner TLX is also white pearl.......now with dirt colored racing stripes from the rain and drive home. making me re-think my white color choice)

NickTee

White looks great until it rains. My TSX was white and it would always have the dirt streaks on it after. Silver is my personal favorite in its ability to hide dirt. My GTO was silver and my ES is silver.

chrisexv6

Yeah, we're looking seriously at the silvers now. The only issue is we wanted the tan interior (glutton for punishment on trying to keep the car clean?)...I think it classes up the whole car and makes it feel even bigger. But with the silvers you cant get tan.

The only other option is Satin Cashmere, but not sure how I feel about having a "boringly beige" car

NickTee

Satin cashmere is the only one that includes the tan interior?

LexBob2

A point of reference only - C&D ranks the ES #12 in what they call the Mid Sized Luxury segment, and the TLX #7 in the Entry Luxury Cars segment.

chrisexv6

Only other *light* color. We've had a dark color (Anthracite metallic) for the last 12 years and the only time it looked good was the first 2 or 3 months we had it. Then came dents, dings, scratches, swirls.

At least on a lighter colored car they would be less obvious or easier to fix. Granted, pearlcoat is a PITA to get right too.

You can get tan interior in a bunch of colors but only a few are light colors.

We just went to the dealer to look at the Satin, plain silver and Atomic silver, and actually prefer the Atomic Silver so far.

Sulu

No surprise from C&D. Honda and Acura have long been known to be favourites of C&D, while Toyota and Lexus are quite disfavoured.

How many Mid-Sized Luxury cars did C&D sample? Which came in last place (and what numbered place)? Which came in first place? Merely quoting #12 for the ES and #7 for the TLX is taking things out of context.