Anyone cross shopped ES350 with Acura TLX?
06-23-15, 05:15 AM
#16
Driver
Thread Starter
So we test drove both of them last night.
Some quick thoughts:
The ES seemed noisier on the inside. I didnt drive the TLX in the same exact location so it could be road, etc. I think the noise is from the wheels/tires, so its fixable if necessary. The one we drove had the 18" wheels.
ES felt like it rode harder than the TLX. Again, could be tires and/or where we drove.
ES interior seems far more luxurious. Its not just the size and space, even with hard plastics where they are they seemed better quality. The soft touch stuff felt nicer and the wood trim looked and felt better to me.
The TLX touchscreen radio bothers me. At least the ES left some *****.
We like the Espresso interior of the TLX, not too light, not too dark. Even the Lexus salesman said the tan will get dirty too fast.
The ES legroom is gigantic. My wife is short and our salesman was my height....he sat behind her while she drove and had 1.5 to 2 feet of space between his knees and her seat.
She complained it was "hard to see" some things in the ES (backing up, driving, etc). I think its just because she didnt set her seat position correctly. We're going to borrow one for a day so we can resolve that on our own time.
The Starfire Pearl is gorgeous, even the wife likes it. Bellanova White "Pearl" on the TLX looks like....gloss white. I saw very little to no "pearl" in it, and my wife pointed that out as well.
Dealer experience - Lexus was spectacular. Explained the car to my wife, walked the lot with us to show us colors (our request). Had the tester ready to go before we got there, etc.
Acura - not so much. They were busy, and the salesperson we had talked to was in the middle of a deal, but it took 20 minutes to unlock the 2 cars that we just wanted to see the interiors of. Once that was done, another 45 minute wait for someone to let us test drive an SH-AWD (the interiors we checked out were in the 4 bangers)
Our Acura dealer is in the town we live in so Im going to try and get a loaner from them today. Lexus is further, but I have a feeling if I asked nicely they would bring a car to me (Im starting to see some of that Lexus cust. service they are known for)
I like both cars, as does my wife, hence the need for extended drives on both. However, for her purposes I think the ES is ideal....."floating on air" highway cruiser, thats basically her 03 TL right now and thats what she likes. I prefer sportiness and thats why I have a G37
It would be nice to have one of each (like we do right now), so we can take the G on shorter drives and save the ES for longer drives/vacations. But Im leaving the decision completely up to her, since it will be her car.
-Chris
Some quick thoughts:
The ES seemed noisier on the inside. I didnt drive the TLX in the same exact location so it could be road, etc. I think the noise is from the wheels/tires, so its fixable if necessary. The one we drove had the 18" wheels.
ES felt like it rode harder than the TLX. Again, could be tires and/or where we drove.
ES interior seems far more luxurious. Its not just the size and space, even with hard plastics where they are they seemed better quality. The soft touch stuff felt nicer and the wood trim looked and felt better to me.
The TLX touchscreen radio bothers me. At least the ES left some *****.
We like the Espresso interior of the TLX, not too light, not too dark. Even the Lexus salesman said the tan will get dirty too fast.
The ES legroom is gigantic. My wife is short and our salesman was my height....he sat behind her while she drove and had 1.5 to 2 feet of space between his knees and her seat.
She complained it was "hard to see" some things in the ES (backing up, driving, etc). I think its just because she didnt set her seat position correctly. We're going to borrow one for a day so we can resolve that on our own time.
The Starfire Pearl is gorgeous, even the wife likes it. Bellanova White "Pearl" on the TLX looks like....gloss white. I saw very little to no "pearl" in it, and my wife pointed that out as well.
Dealer experience - Lexus was spectacular. Explained the car to my wife, walked the lot with us to show us colors (our request). Had the tester ready to go before we got there, etc.
Acura - not so much. They were busy, and the salesperson we had talked to was in the middle of a deal, but it took 20 minutes to unlock the 2 cars that we just wanted to see the interiors of. Once that was done, another 45 minute wait for someone to let us test drive an SH-AWD (the interiors we checked out were in the 4 bangers)
Our Acura dealer is in the town we live in so Im going to try and get a loaner from them today. Lexus is further, but I have a feeling if I asked nicely they would bring a car to me (Im starting to see some of that Lexus cust. service they are known for)
I like both cars, as does my wife, hence the need for extended drives on both. However, for her purposes I think the ES is ideal....."floating on air" highway cruiser, thats basically her 03 TL right now and thats what she likes. I prefer sportiness and thats why I have a G37
It would be nice to have one of each (like we do right now), so we can take the G on shorter drives and save the ES for longer drives/vacations. But Im leaving the decision completely up to her, since it will be her car.-Chris
06-23-15, 06:10 AM
#17
06-23-15, 06:46 AM
#18
Chris, your thoughts are similar to mine. My wife has an ES300h and I recently drove a TLX loaner when my MDX was in for service. TLX definitely more sporty, but I like the space and ride of the ES. We have taken the ES on a couple of 1,000 mi round trips and ride was very comfortable.
I understand about your G37. My son has a G35 that I get to drive occasionally when he brings it over to borrow the truck.
I understand about your G37. My son has a G35 that I get to drive occasionally when he brings it over to borrow the truck.
06-23-15, 07:29 AM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
Starfire Pearl is gorgeous under morning and evening light. The metallic particles give the car a different hue under different lighting. Scratch and dent repairs could be expensive because of the extra work needed for repainting though.
As for the interior, even though the current ES has more hard plastics than the old one, it's still a step up from the TLX. I find the dual display setup a bit fussy whereas the swooping dash and horizontal lines on the ES look more elegant. It's also like a cheap LS
The hard ride and road noise on the ES could be due to high tire pressures and the dreaded Bridgestones Turanzas that sometimes come with the car. Most owners end up switching to Michelin Primacy or Pirelli P7 Cinturato. The ES doesn't feel as airy as the TLX probably because of the swoopy roofline, higher beltline and narrower windows. I'm also short and my shoulder is just above the bottom edge of the window, but with the right adjustments to the mirrors I can see clearly all around.
As for the interior, even though the current ES has more hard plastics than the old one, it's still a step up from the TLX. I find the dual display setup a bit fussy whereas the swooping dash and horizontal lines on the ES look more elegant. It's also like a cheap LS
The hard ride and road noise on the ES could be due to high tire pressures and the dreaded Bridgestones Turanzas that sometimes come with the car. Most owners end up switching to Michelin Primacy or Pirelli P7 Cinturato. The ES doesn't feel as airy as the TLX probably because of the swoopy roofline, higher beltline and narrower windows. I'm also short and my shoulder is just above the bottom edge of the window, but with the right adjustments to the mirrors I can see clearly all around.
Last edited by chromedome; 06-23-15 at 07:35 AM.
06-23-15, 08:09 AM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
While Acura provides good service, they don't seem to be at Lexus level. However, the parts department at Acura was far nicer and would give me shop discounts to "price-match" online prices. Lexus, not so much. It's cheaper for me to order most things online than it is for me to buy it from the Lexus dealership.
Make sure to test the cars on the noisiest roads possible. It doesn't do you much good to test out a car on good roads and you'll be horrified when you do finally drive on those noisy roads. It also gives a good indication at the noise reduction, because some cars are nice and quiet on the quiet and mid-grade roads, but sound like you're in a 1970 Camaro going on the noisy roads.
Make sure to test the cars on the noisiest roads possible. It doesn't do you much good to test out a car on good roads and you'll be horrified when you do finally drive on those noisy roads. It also gives a good indication at the noise reduction, because some cars are nice and quiet on the quiet and mid-grade roads, but sound like you're in a 1970 Camaro going on the noisy roads.
06-23-15, 05:15 PM
#24
You can also look at it this way - in a month, they will give out larger discounts to move last units before face lift comes, but face-lift will keep its value better at resale.
It will also certainly get new safety sense tech as well as more gadgets like color screen between instruments, possibly new infotainment system, etc, etc.
I personally would wait, but maybe your wife will prefer to pocket few $k extra.
For the new 2016 ES, Lexus engineers applied structural reinforcements to foster stiffness in the vehicle’s unibody construction. Adapted from the Lexus IS sports sedan, this form of chassis tuning arms the ES with enhanced ride quality and handling. Moreover, this ES adds a sound-reducing layer behind the dashboard to better isolate engine noise from the cabin.
06-23-15, 06:55 PM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
That's the first I've heard about better noise reduction in the new ES. What they should be doing is to add more insulation in the wheel wells because road noise is still an issue, whereas I can barely hear the engine in the ES350 and it's silent most of the time in the ES300h.
Also , with the stiffer bodyshell, will Lexus use softer springs to make it like the old ES? Supposedly the current 350 has a softer setup while the 300h has a firmer, more sporty ride, for some strange reason.
I'd love to see what Safety Sense adds to the base ES. It could be worth a few thousand dollars if they make stuff like blind spot monitoring, radar cruise and lane keep assist as standard.
Also , with the stiffer bodyshell, will Lexus use softer springs to make it like the old ES? Supposedly the current 350 has a softer setup while the 300h has a firmer, more sporty ride, for some strange reason.
I'd love to see what Safety Sense adds to the base ES. It could be worth a few thousand dollars if they make stuff like blind spot monitoring, radar cruise and lane keep assist as standard.
Last edited by chromedome; 06-23-15 at 06:58 PM.
06-23-15, 07:46 PM
#26
Driver
Thread Starter
That's the first I've heard about better noise reduction in the new ES. What they should be doing is to add more insulation in the wheel wells because road noise is still an issue, whereas I can barely hear the engine in the ES350 and it's silent most of the time in the ES300h.
Also , with the stiffer bodyshell, will Lexus use softer springs to make it like the old ES? Supposedly the current 350 has a softer setup while the 300h has a firmer, more sporty ride, for some strange reason.
I'd love to see what Safety Sense adds to the base ES. It could be worth a few thousand dollars if they make stuff like blind spot monitoring, radar cruise and lane keep assist as standard.
Also , with the stiffer bodyshell, will Lexus use softer springs to make it like the old ES? Supposedly the current 350 has a softer setup while the 300h has a firmer, more sporty ride, for some strange reason.
I'd love to see what Safety Sense adds to the base ES. It could be worth a few thousand dollars if they make stuff like blind spot monitoring, radar cruise and lane keep assist as standard.
They mentioned more stitched panels around the console area, which is good. The only noise improvements I see mentioned are around keeping engine noise out of the cabin....when I drove the '15, the engine was barely audible unless really leaning into it. By far the bulk of the noise was from the road (tires or maybe the car is just that noisy)
The new interior colors/trim sound nice, but nothing that Id pay extra $$$ over.
And the safety package they are talking about is all of the options that Im looking at in a '15 Ultra Lux anyway, so there isnt much to improve for me on there. It doesnt look like they are adding NEW safety stuff, just bundling the existing (which makes sense, since Acura does it now too)
By far the biggest changes seem to be on the exterior, and Im not a fan of those.
06-23-15, 08:04 PM
#27
Lexus Champion
I'm just throwing this in the mix, but why not look at an Infiniti Q50 AWD? It should fare better than the TLX, at least in interior appointments. There are great lease deals right now, so I don't think it would be any more expensive than the others.
06-23-15, 08:42 PM
#28
Super Moderator
Depends on your priorities, really.
Space and cushy ride: ES
Handling and fun: TLX
In either case, by choosing one, you're sacrificing the other. In terms of fun, the ES is around 4% of a Miata, while the TLX may be as much as 15%. In terms of comfort and plushness, the ES is probably 35% of an LS, while the TLX is more like 25%.
Space and cushy ride: ES
Handling and fun: TLX
In either case, by choosing one, you're sacrificing the other. In terms of fun, the ES is around 4% of a Miata, while the TLX may be as much as 15%. In terms of comfort and plushness, the ES is probably 35% of an LS, while the TLX is more like 25%.
06-23-15, 09:21 PM
#29
I keep reading the press release and other "first looks" on the 2016 ES350 and Im not sure exactly how much improvement will be in the interior.
They mentioned more stitched panels around the console area, which is good. The only noise improvements I see mentioned are around keeping engine noise out of the cabin....when I drove the '15, the engine was barely audible unless really leaning into it. By far the bulk of the noise was from the road (tires or maybe the car is just that noisy)
The new interior colors/trim sound nice, but nothing that Id pay extra $$$ over.
And the safety package they are talking about is all of the options that Im looking at in a '15 Ultra Lux anyway, so there isnt much to improve for me on there. It doesnt look like they are adding NEW safety stuff, just bundling the existing (which makes sense, since Acura does it now too)
By far the biggest changes seem to be on the exterior, and Im not a fan of those.
They mentioned more stitched panels around the console area, which is good. The only noise improvements I see mentioned are around keeping engine noise out of the cabin....when I drove the '15, the engine was barely audible unless really leaning into it. By far the bulk of the noise was from the road (tires or maybe the car is just that noisy)
The new interior colors/trim sound nice, but nothing that Id pay extra $$$ over.
And the safety package they are talking about is all of the options that Im looking at in a '15 Ultra Lux anyway, so there isnt much to improve for me on there. It doesnt look like they are adding NEW safety stuff, just bundling the existing (which makes sense, since Acura does it now too)
By far the biggest changes seem to be on the exterior, and Im not a fan of those.
06-24-15, 12:10 AM
#30
Lexus Test Driver
I'd be another one in favor of the facelifted ES. It should be mildly upgraded from the current ES in most areas. From the pics I saw when it first debuted, the interior and dash were cleaned up nicely.