Facelifted LX570 / Land Cruiser
06-23-15, 11:30 AM
#121
Lexus Fanatic
Funny is that you fail to see that I am only really ragging in the LX570. Land Cruiser especially outside of NA is the real deal.
06-23-15, 11:40 AM
#122
Lexus Fanatic
Grand Cherokee is a liability just like the LX. Not sure why you brought it up? The Wrangler on the other band is the real deal.
06-23-15, 11:56 AM
#123
You mentioned AHC -- are you aware that Land Cruisers are sold with AHC in other parts of the world? Is there any less electronics in such a Land Cruiser than LX570 that is sold in the US?
Sorry but you either fixated on a glass half full or just not very knowledgeable about 200 series platform to begin with.
06-23-15, 12:19 PM
#124
Lexus Fanatic
I brought this up because the electronics are really a problem when they break down all the time and I don't think LX have this problem at all. Craw control is all electronics and arguably very useful offload. The 200 series frame is stronger than 100 series so it can carry more load and sustain greater abuse while offload. But you forgot to mentioned that because you seems to be only obsessed on pointing the negatives?
You mentioned AHC -- are you aware that Land Cruisers are sold with AHC in other parts of the world? Is there any less electronics in such a Land Cruiser than LX570 that is sold in the US?
Sorry but you either fixated on a glass half full or just not very knowledgeable about 200 series platform to begin with.
You mentioned AHC -- are you aware that Land Cruisers are sold with AHC in other parts of the world? Is there any less electronics in such a Land Cruiser than LX570 that is sold in the US?
Sorry but you either fixated on a glass half full or just not very knowledgeable about 200 series platform to begin with.
The Jeep Wrangler and 4Runner Trail are much more worthy of the off road name for the simple fact that they come with floor shifters, less complicated suspension systems and better ground , approach and depart credentials.
What the LX was and what it now has become is sad as they have watered the rig down.
06-23-15, 12:27 PM
#125
See, you fail to see how Toyota has brainwashed people in North America. Land Cruiser 200 does come with a locking rear, no-KDSS, no-AHC in most parts of the world. The electronic gizmos are the worst thing you would want to have in an SUV, my 04 4Runner has all of these and is an extreme liability, imagine if you are off road somewhere and the LX gets stuck in LO 4WD or the a brake seizes because of crawl control. You must also not forgot that the LX570 has horrendous angles for approach and depart. The AHC is a moot point if the LX had proper ground clearance and angles to begin with. Do you not agree?
If you don't like the angles then you put the aftermarket bumper on. Problem solved! Why don't they put it on from the factory? See my points above ;-)
There is 70 series Land Cruisers which is not sold in the US -- sounds like that that is what you want.
06-23-15, 01:00 PM
#126
Lexus Fanatic
Lol, you are really drinking the Toyota Kool-Aid, the LX is not for average buyers. And sadly, the LX was a great stock off road machine which has now become a lame sad attempt and looking like it can go far off the beaten path.
06-23-15, 01:11 PM
#127
Let's do a thought experiment and imagine Toyota starts selling Land Cruisers with cloth interior, manual transmission and locking real diff in the US. It will probably cost $35K-$40K.
You know what's the first thing that's going to happen? You will get reviews all other the place saying how on earth Toyota dares to sell a $40K vehicle with a cloth interior and take everyone for fools while you can buy a Grand Cherokee for the same money where interior is 10x better!
But you see -- the reason Grand Cherokee has 10x better interior is because underneath the hood it's that much worse than a Land Cruiser. But of course nobody in US would care because all most people want is to get to the grocery store and back. There is just no feasible market in the US for this type of Land Cruiser.
And the class of buyers who understand what Land Cruiser is about will get one at 70K price tag no problem.
06-23-15, 01:21 PM
#128
Lexus Fanatic
Actually that was in a reference to your comment about Land Cruiser.
Let's do a thought experiment and imagine Toyota starts selling Land Cruisers with cloth interior, manual transmission and locking real diff in the US. It will probably cost $35K-$40K.
You know what's the first thing that's going to happen? You will get reviews all other the place saying how on earth Toyota dares to sell a $40K vehicle with a cloth interior and take everyone for fools while you can buy a Grand Cherokee for the same money where interior is 10x better!
But you see -- the reason Grand Cherokee has 10x better interior is because underneath the hood it's that much worse than a Land Cruiser. But of course nobody in US would care because all most people want is to get to the grocery store and back. There is just no feasible market in the US for this type of Land Cruiser.
And the class of buyers who understand what Land Cruiser is about will get one at 70K price tag no problem.
Let's do a thought experiment and imagine Toyota starts selling Land Cruisers with cloth interior, manual transmission and locking real diff in the US. It will probably cost $35K-$40K.
You know what's the first thing that's going to happen? You will get reviews all other the place saying how on earth Toyota dares to sell a $40K vehicle with a cloth interior and take everyone for fools while you can buy a Grand Cherokee for the same money where interior is 10x better!
But you see -- the reason Grand Cherokee has 10x better interior is because underneath the hood it's that much worse than a Land Cruiser. But of course nobody in US would care because all most people want is to get to the grocery store and back. There is just no feasible market in the US for this type of Land Cruiser.
And the class of buyers who understand what Land Cruiser is about will get one at 70K price tag no problem.
06-23-15, 01:29 PM
#130
Jill, I don't think there's any one in the world that would call the LX "barely adequate" in terms of capability. While yes, the car may seem somewhat softer than the 80 series that you love, it still has the fundamental construction and abilities that make it one of the most rugged vehicles in the world.
Serious off roaders don't take any "stock" vehicle out on the trails. Even with Wranglers you'll see owners swap out for built bumpers, additional rock protection, winches, tires, etc.
The Land Cruiser and LX BOTH still possess amazing capability and solid reliability records. They've made some "concessions" in terms of leveraging new technology and making the vehicle more appealing for what it's used for in this market, but it's not some soft vehicle that you're making it out to be.
The capability may be a bit more hidden, but it's still there under the surface. It's not some Escalade.
Serious off roaders don't take any "stock" vehicle out on the trails. Even with Wranglers you'll see owners swap out for built bumpers, additional rock protection, winches, tires, etc.
The Land Cruiser and LX BOTH still possess amazing capability and solid reliability records. They've made some "concessions" in terms of leveraging new technology and making the vehicle more appealing for what it's used for in this market, but it's not some soft vehicle that you're making it out to be.
The capability may be a bit more hidden, but it's still there under the surface. It's not some Escalade.
06-23-15, 01:56 PM
#131
Lexus Fanatic
No question the LX is a very capable offroad vehicle. The issue is that its offered capabilities hold it back in areas that are important to buyers in that segment. What you wind up with is a mismatch, buyers that are in the market for a vehicle of its size and price don't need/want what makes the LX unique, and buyers who need/want that aren't going to pay $90,000 for an LX to get it. The result is a very slow selling vehicle that has a niche following...but overall that buyer is a used buyer.
Like pbm said above, the concessions they've made may reduce its offroad capabilities somewhat, but their goal is to make the vehicle more in line with that the actual buyers are looking for. Since the goal is to actually SELL the vehicle, you can't fault them for that.
Like pbm said above, the concessions they've made may reduce its offroad capabilities somewhat, but their goal is to make the vehicle more in line with that the actual buyers are looking for. Since the goal is to actually SELL the vehicle, you can't fault them for that.
06-23-15, 03:55 PM
#132
No question the LX is a very capable offroad vehicle. The issue is that its offered capabilities hold it back in areas that are important to buyers in that segment. What you wind up with is a mismatch, buyers that are in the market for a vehicle of its size and price don't need/want what makes the LX unique, and buyers who need/want that aren't going to pay $90,000 for an LX to get it. The result is a very slow selling vehicle that has a niche following...but overall that buyer is a used buyer.
Like pbm said above, the concessions they've made may reduce its offroad capabilities somewhat, but their goal is to make the vehicle more in line with that the actual buyers are looking for. Since the goal is to actually SELL the vehicle, you can't fault them for that.
Like pbm said above, the concessions they've made may reduce its offroad capabilities somewhat, but their goal is to make the vehicle more in line with that the actual buyers are looking for. Since the goal is to actually SELL the vehicle, you can't fault them for that.
It is also probably more capable than ever.
06-23-15, 05:57 PM
#133
Lexus Fanatic
No doubt, worldwide. I'm talking about in the US. This refresh is designed to make the vehicle sell better here. Same with the GX, they elongated the nose and reduced the approach angle on that too.
Obviously I love the LS, thats why I got one. But, I'll be the first to tell you that it was a personal purchase for me. If I took that personal bias out of it, theres no question that pretty much everybody else has a better package in this segment. Lexus really needs an all new LS.
Obviously I love the LS, thats why I got one. But, I'll be the first to tell you that it was a personal purchase for me. If I took that personal bias out of it, theres no question that pretty much everybody else has a better package in this segment. Lexus really needs an all new LS.
06-23-15, 06:46 PM
#134
Lexus Champion
No doubt, worldwide. I'm talking about in the US. This refresh is designed to make the vehicle sell better here. Same with the GX, they elongated the nose and reduced the approach angle on that too.
Obviously I love the LS, thats why I got one. But, I'll be the first to tell you that it was a personal purchase for me. If I took that personal bias out of it, theres no question that pretty much everybody else has a better package in this segment. Lexus really needs an all new LS.
Obviously I love the LS, thats why I got one. But, I'll be the first to tell you that it was a personal purchase for me. If I took that personal bias out of it, theres no question that pretty much everybody else has a better package in this segment. Lexus really needs an all new LS.
06-23-15, 07:53 PM
#135
Awesome update!
This update breaths life into the LX and to me shows that Lexus is committed to keeping it in the lineup...why spend all the $$$ (or Yen) on this significant update just to discontinue the nameplate next generation? I think this redesign for the LC/LX will last 5 years before they come out with a true next generation model. In the US market the GX will probably go away and in its price point will be a 3 row car based crossover. This will fill out Lexus' SUV lineup quite nicely as it will give good options to people who want a people mover vs those who want a all out luxury SUV with amazing capability.