Sulu

Toyota is improving its engines. Just because it keeps the same basic engine code (which reflects the basic lump of the engine block but not the technology that goes into it), does not mean that the technology of the engines is not changing.

Toyota is a very conservative (quiet), typically Japanese company. There is likely a very good reason(s) for keeping its 6-speeds transmissions; they just will not tell us why (and they probably realise that few would listen).

The improvement in fuel efficiency that the 8-speed transmission can bring may not be that great, compared to the extra cost of producing the 8-speed over the 6-speed.

Or, just like Mercedes-Benz did for the first few years after introducing its 7-speed transmission, it kept the 5-speed around for high-performance models (the 5-speed likely could handle higher torque loads than the 7-speed).

Toyota perhaps has not yet added the AWD feature to the 8-speed (or it is not yet as reliable as its 6-speed AWD transmissions).

Fizzboy7

I don't think those are legit reasons. Other manufacturers (and a lot of them) have already figured out ways to tackle those challenges and overcome them. I would guess Toyota/Lexus's lack of new tech could be related to their common trait of long-standing stinginess (add Honda and Nissan to that) or the lack of long-term testing which hasn't proved the reliability (no real excuse for that).

Toys4RJill

I highly doubt reliability or something that Toyota knows but we don't know has anything to do with it.

Toyota from 2003ish to 2009 made numerous updates to their engines and transmissions. LX470 upgraded twice during the entire life cycle, Tundra once, 2nd Tundra once, Camry a few times, last gen Avalon mid cycle, 4Runner received two updates during the last cycle. So all of a sudden Toyota has found some reason as to why the corporate 3.5 or ES/Avalon can't be updated? What super secret thing does Toyota know that we don't know as to why the current LX hasnt been updated since 2007?

My guess is that Toyota is being cheap and milking as much as they can, heck the Tacoma never got one update to the 4.0 or 5 speed auto since 2005 while Tundra, 4Runner, FJ and Foreign Land Cruise got the update.

My dad just bought a 15 ES and my mom bought a 15 4Runner, but that does not mean I am turning a blind eye to Toyota and their laziness or simply them being cheap. I would expect you and Sulu to do the same.

doge

Is it too much to ask for both? Surely the automotive worlds biggest r & d spender can do both...

NickTee

It's bad when a 2012 Genesis 3.8L sedan has more power than a 2015 IS350

Toys4RJill

You would think...

doge

Not really, they're two different cars.

NickTee

One is a sport luxury V6 sedan while the other is a luxury V6 sedan that's three years old. And makes more power. So yes, it's pretty sad.

Sulu

The Genesis 3.8L is a mid-/full-size luxury sedan with a 290hp V6 while the IS 350 is a compact luxury-sport sedan with a 306hp V6. These are 2 different cars, in 2 different size and weight classes.

Those are the numbers I found; I do not know what numbers you found to justify that the Genesis 3.8L is more powerful than the IS 350 3.5L.

NickTee

1. It make 333hp and 291 ft-lb of torque. http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genes...features-specs. You're looking at the 2011 and older V6 specs.
2. I don't understand why you cannot grasp this simple concept: they're both V6s and we are discussing the engine power, not the chassis it's in(spoiler alert, both engines are found in a couple of platforms). In fact, that same V6 is also in the Genesis coupe. Weight class does not matter, nor is it what we are discussing. We are discussing the engine. Not only that, but the GS350 also uses the same engine as the IS350, so there's your "weight-class," even though we still aren't discussing that.

Fact is, the Lambda II RS GDi engine makes almost 30hp more than the 2GR-FSE(which is also used in the GS350) back in 2012.

cino

iTrader: (1)

Did you get a chance to read MT review on new Miata vs BRZ? 155hp vs 200hp, and Miata does everything faster. Maybe peak hp doesn't mean much. Maybe drivetrain loss, gearing, tq/hp curve, curb weight, and tires mean more than peak hp. Maybe Lexus doesn't excel in powertrain, but other categories that make performance on par with other brands. Just maybe. If HP is the only thing you care about, Ford has that 5.2L making over 500hp coming.

Edit: why this thread becomes a power debate?

doge

The Silverado and corvette both have 2 doors, both have a 6.2l v8, both are rwd, and both could be had with an automatic.. See how silly that sounds? You weren't too far off. Now if you compared the genesis to the gs we could talk...

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Let's get back on topic please folks

Vladi

Those could be the reasons why but there is a lot more chance that the single reason why everything goes so slow is "Toyota loves to stack money". They don't like to spend and they are the biggest bean counters in automotive industry with Honda being close second.

Toyota won WEC championship last year and do you know what happened this year? They are dead last because their budget remained the same even though TMG has asked for more money cause they knew Audio and Porsche will be back with the vengeance which they did. I could see them leave the championship after 2017 due to no results, besides the point that they were not ready to pay for it.

They are in a cruise mode right now, collection mode because of their reliability and hybrid technology stigma that surrounds them. Both of them are not true anymore in 2015, their reliability is far away from being bullet proof, hybrid setups still reside in 2007 and obvious cost cutting measures are visible to the eye. Fuel Cell thing will be just another headline attempt that will buy them some more time and then they gonna let it slide just like they did with Hybrid Synergy.

They need to fall on their face flat in order to wake up and do something different. Just like Lexus did in design department which was super lackluster and fragmented.

NickTee

Are you comparing the LS3/LT1 to the L86 and they just happen to reside in two different chassis? The concept apparently went over your head, which is even funnier because I already pointed out that I wasn't talking about the platform itself.

As someone pointed out, they wanted more power. The IS350 comes with a 306hp 2GR-FSE. The GS350 comes with a 303hp 2GR-FSE. That was great when it debuted in 2006, and 2007 for the GS350, but 9 years later it is outclassed by other V6s. There is zero comparison to the chassis the engine resides in, though you desperately want to point that out for no logical reason(not only that, but the GS and the Genesis are in the same class and the IS350 is still a sport luxury sedan, even if it's smaller than the GS and the Genesis), just a statement that even in 2012 a Hyundai V6 was making quite a bit more power and that Toyota needs to step up their engine game.