Marchionne Courting Automakers
#16
Hi MM
On the big cars, I don't think they represent enough volume to excite a Regulator.
Regarding the SUVs and CUVs, you included a raft of other successful models. The general point is that neither GM nor FCA has a category killer, so no market power. Your additions strengthen the point that that General Fiat or Fiateral Motors would not be in a position to screw consumers any more than they do now by foisting their union made garbage on them.
I work at a fortune 200 shop and I can tell you that Caddy got nothin on the real Luxury brands, which are well represented in our parking lots. It is rare to see a CTS (none of the new ones to be seen). XTS sitings are limited to limo company cars taking folks to and from the airport.
On the big cars, I don't think they represent enough volume to excite a Regulator.
Regarding the SUVs and CUVs, you included a raft of other successful models. The general point is that neither GM nor FCA has a category killer, so no market power. Your additions strengthen the point that that General Fiat or Fiateral Motors would not be in a position to screw consumers any more than they do now by foisting their union made garbage on them.
I work at a fortune 200 shop and I can tell you that Caddy got nothin on the real Luxury brands, which are well represented in our parking lots. It is rare to see a CTS (none of the new ones to be seen). XTS sitings are limited to limo company cars taking folks to and from the airport.
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Hi MM
On the big cars, I don't think they represent enough volume to excite a Regulator.
Regarding the SUVs and CUVs, you included a raft of other successful models. The general point is that neither GM nor FCA has a category killer, so no market power. Your additions strengthen the point that that General Fiat or Fiateral Motors would not be in a position to screw consumers any more than they do now by foisting their union made garbage on them.
On the big cars, I don't think they represent enough volume to excite a Regulator.
Regarding the SUVs and CUVs, you included a raft of other successful models. The general point is that neither GM nor FCA has a category killer, so no market power. Your additions strengthen the point that that General Fiat or Fiateral Motors would not be in a position to screw consumers any more than they do now by foisting their union made garbage on them.
That's why I don't see much sense in a GM/Chrysler merger.....both companies seem to be doing very well on their own now, and producing much better vehicles. Of course, there are still a few exceptions.....the Cadillac XTS and Buick Encore/Chevy Trax don't impress me much, the Dodge Dart could use some better drivetrains, and the Jeep Grand Cherokee, despite its superb interior, fit/finish, refinement, and drivetrain, is still a question mark on reliability.
I work at a fortune 200 shop and I can tell you that Caddy got nothin on the real Luxury brands, which are well represented in our parking lots. It is rare to see a CTS (none of the new ones to be seen). XTS sitings are limited to limo company cars taking folks to and from the airport.
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Cadillacs and Buicks are selling well in China, of all places. Maybe Chinese consumers don't have memories of the crap cars that GM and Chrysler used to put out, so marketing efforts are effectively starting from a clean slate. FCA Jeeps and Fiats are also selling surprisingly well although VW/Audi holds the largest chunk of the market.
I personally wish the world wasn't afflicted by terrible Fiats, Chryslers and Dodges but that's just me. Their engineering is a step or two behind the rest and it always makes me wonder why people would buy a cheaper but less reliable car.
I personally wish the world wasn't afflicted by terrible Fiats, Chryslers and Dodges but that's just me. Their engineering is a step or two behind the rest and it always makes me wonder why people would buy a cheaper but less reliable car.
Last edited by chromedome; 05-27-15 at 01:50 AM.
#19
Lexus Fanatic
I personally wish the world wasn't afflicted by terrible Fiats, Chryslers and Dodges but that's just me. Their engineering is a step or two behind the rest and it always makes me wonder why people would buy a cheaper but less reliable car.
#20
Lexus Champion
If Mr. Marchionne truly believes that the industry needs more consolidation in order that smaller brands may survive, he does not have to look to merge with giants like GM or VW.
There was a deal that Fiat had with GM a few years back that ended badly. And VW has said "no" to Fiat also. By looking to *merge* with larger carmakers, he looks like he is desperate to save Fiat but not necessarily as the saviour of the auto industry.
Fiat could look to save smaller car companies, like it saved Chrysler. In Europe, there is PSA Peugeot Citroën. In Japan, there is Suzuki (but Suzuki just bailed out of a bad deal with VW so may be reluctant); there is Mazda (which is not doing well since Ford set it adrift); there is also Fuji Heavy Industries/Subaru. There are Russian automakers. There are Chinese automakers but that would likely be a reverse deal; the Chinese are more likely to want to buy Fiat rather than be sold to Fiat.
There are probably many more (very) small automakers that would not mind help from a much larger automaker.
There was a deal that Fiat had with GM a few years back that ended badly. And VW has said "no" to Fiat also. By looking to *merge* with larger carmakers, he looks like he is desperate to save Fiat but not necessarily as the saviour of the auto industry.
Fiat could look to save smaller car companies, like it saved Chrysler. In Europe, there is PSA Peugeot Citroën. In Japan, there is Suzuki (but Suzuki just bailed out of a bad deal with VW so may be reluctant); there is Mazda (which is not doing well since Ford set it adrift); there is also Fuji Heavy Industries/Subaru. There are Russian automakers. There are Chinese automakers but that would likely be a reverse deal; the Chinese are more likely to want to buy Fiat rather than be sold to Fiat.
There are probably many more (very) small automakers that would not mind help from a much larger automaker.
#21
Lexus Fanatic
If Mr. Marchionne truly believes that the industry needs more consolidation in order that smaller brands may survive, he does not have to look to merge with giants like GM or VW.
There was a deal that Fiat had with GM a few years back that ended badly. And VW has said "no" to Fiat also. By looking to *merge* with larger carmakers, he looks like he is desperate to save Fiat but not necessarily as the saviour of the auto industry.
Fiat could look to save smaller car companies, like it saved Chrysler. In Europe, there is PSA Peugeot Citroën. In Japan, there is Suzuki (but Suzuki just bailed out of a bad deal with VW so may be reluctant); there is Mazda (which is not doing well since Ford set it adrift); there is also Fuji Heavy Industries/Subaru. There are Russian automakers. There are Chinese automakers but that would likely be a reverse deal; the Chinese are more likely to want to buy Fiat rather than be sold to Fiat.
There are probably many more (very) small automakers that would not mind help from a much larger automaker.
There was a deal that Fiat had with GM a few years back that ended badly. And VW has said "no" to Fiat also. By looking to *merge* with larger carmakers, he looks like he is desperate to save Fiat but not necessarily as the saviour of the auto industry.
Fiat could look to save smaller car companies, like it saved Chrysler. In Europe, there is PSA Peugeot Citroën. In Japan, there is Suzuki (but Suzuki just bailed out of a bad deal with VW so may be reluctant); there is Mazda (which is not doing well since Ford set it adrift); there is also Fuji Heavy Industries/Subaru. There are Russian automakers. There are Chinese automakers but that would likely be a reverse deal; the Chinese are more likely to want to buy Fiat rather than be sold to Fiat.
There are probably many more (very) small automakers that would not mind help from a much larger automaker.
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Chrysler sure wasn't jinxed. In fact, they have done a heck of a lot better under Fiat than under Daimler (Mercedes). Of course, the idea of GM, Fiat, and Chrysler all merging together is quite another matter.
#25
Lexus Champion
I think VW would rather buy a near-dead carmaker, not one that comes kicking and screaming with conditions (like Marchionne and Fiat would). Their recent co-habitation followed by a quick parting with Suzuki would have left a really bad taste in their mouths.
#27
Isn't Saab past dead?
When was the last time they built a car?
Saab would basically be a brand asset purchase as it makes little sense to start up 9-3 or 9-5 production.
Back to Chrysler bashing. I seem to recall MB losing points wrt quality with Subpar (oops, Mopar) under their umbrella. Without the pentastar logo contaminating their shop floors, MB is now producing some amazing stuff.
The folks here generally like what Mazda and Subie have to offer the world. No need to foul these wonderful people with the Colt 45 and a blunt for lunch crowd that build Chryslers.
When was the last time they built a car?
Saab would basically be a brand asset purchase as it makes little sense to start up 9-3 or 9-5 production.
Back to Chrysler bashing. I seem to recall MB losing points wrt quality with Subpar (oops, Mopar) under their umbrella. Without the pentastar logo contaminating their shop floors, MB is now producing some amazing stuff.
The folks here generally like what Mazda and Subie have to offer the world. No need to foul these wonderful people with the Colt 45 and a blunt for lunch crowd that build Chryslers.
#28
Lexus Champion
Isn't Saab past dead?
When was the last time they built a car?
Saab would basically be a brand asset purchase as it makes little sense to start up 9-3 or 9-5 production.
Back to Chrysler bashing. I seem to recall MB losing points wrt quality with Subpar (oops, Mopar) under their umbrella. Without the pentastar logo contaminating their shop floors, MB is now producing some amazing stuff.
The folks here generally like what Mazda and Subie have to offer the world. No need to foul these wonderful people with the Colt 45 and a blunt for lunch crowd that build Chryslers.
When was the last time they built a car?
Saab would basically be a brand asset purchase as it makes little sense to start up 9-3 or 9-5 production.
Back to Chrysler bashing. I seem to recall MB losing points wrt quality with Subpar (oops, Mopar) under their umbrella. Without the pentastar logo contaminating their shop floors, MB is now producing some amazing stuff.
The folks here generally like what Mazda and Subie have to offer the world. No need to foul these wonderful people with the Colt 45 and a blunt for lunch crowd that build Chryslers.
And the Saab name and logo are shared with the Saab aerospace company (former owner of the Saab car company). Any company wanting to buy Saab would likely have to negotiate with the defence company for rights to continue using the name. But why buy the name if you may not be able to continue using the name?
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Well, that was my point. They are waiting for someone to come along and refinance them. You probably won't see any more new products from them until someone does.
Many recent 2.5L Subies, though, are having oil-consumption problems. There is talk of a class-action suit.
The folks here generally like what Mazda and Subie have to offer the world. No need to foul these wonderful people with the Colt 45 and a blunt for lunch crowd that build Chryslers.
#30
MM
Let's try it this way. Many of us here would think positively about getting a family member a used Impreza to go off to school with. Good luck finding someone here who would have the same view regarding about getting a used Avenger (or maybe a Nitro) for that same kid.
Let's try it this way. Many of us here would think positively about getting a family member a used Impreza to go off to school with. Good luck finding someone here who would have the same view regarding about getting a used Avenger (or maybe a Nitro) for that same kid.