S2000toIS350

Hi MM

On the big cars, I don't think they represent enough volume to excite a Regulator.

Regarding the SUVs and CUVs, you included a raft of other successful models. The general point is that neither GM nor FCA has a category killer, so no market power. Your additions strengthen the point that that General Fiat or Fiateral Motors would not be in a position to screw consumers any more than they do now by foisting their union made garbage on them.

I work at a fortune 200 shop and I can tell you that Caddy got nothin on the real Luxury brands, which are well represented in our parking lots. It is rare to see a CTS (none of the new ones to be seen). XTS sitings are limited to limo company cars taking folks to and from the airport.

mmarshall

Frankly, I don't think Marchionne ever really wanted to screw customers in the first place....Chrysler did enough of that over the years. On his personal orders, after the Fiat-Chrysler merger, the company started to produce better vehicles. The story is that the looked at all of the Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler vehicles that were being sold at the time of the merger and said "You've got to be kidding...we can, and we WILL do a lot better then this" (never mind the fact that Fiat had its own history of producing unreliable cars). Marcionne was as good as his word, though, with Chrysler......when people's jobs are at stake, things get done.

That's why I don't see much sense in a GM/Chrysler merger.....both companies seem to be doing very well on their own now, and producing much better vehicles. Of course, there are still a few exceptions.....the Cadillac XTS and Buick Encore/Chevy Trax don't impress me much, the Dodge Dart could use some better drivetrains, and the Jeep Grand Cherokee, despite its superb interior, fit/finish, refinement, and drivetrain, is still a question mark on reliability.


The XTS, I agree, was not well-done, but there's nothing wrong with the CTS (except for the CUE system and some dash controls) that shaving some of the sticker price wouldn't cure. Cadillac is simply asking too much for it, that's all.

chromedome

Cadillacs and Buicks are selling well in China, of all places. Maybe Chinese consumers don't have memories of the crap cars that GM and Chrysler used to put out, so marketing efforts are effectively starting from a clean slate. FCA Jeeps and Fiats are also selling surprisingly well although VW/Audi holds the largest chunk of the market.

I personally wish the world wasn't afflicted by terrible Fiats, Chryslers and Dodges but that's just me. Their engineering is a step or two behind the rest and it always makes me wonder why people would buy a cheaper but less reliable car.

mmarshall

No. it is not that. GM, for the most part, simply doesn't produce crap cars any more, whether here or there. The Chinese also like Buicks because they prize comfort. The Buick Excelle (Verano) was their top-selling product for the last couple of years.

If I may (politely) make a suggestion, you need to go out and do some test-drives. I think you will find your conception of today's Chrysler products about 7 or 8 years out of date. Most people who DO go look at today/s Chrysler products end up quite surprised. Consumer Reports will also back much of that up. The Jeep Grand Cherokee, though, does seem to be lagging in the reliability department, but even those are better then they were years ago.

Sulu

If Mr. Marchionne truly believes that the industry needs more consolidation in order that smaller brands may survive, he does not have to look to merge with giants like GM or VW.

There was a deal that Fiat had with GM a few years back that ended badly. And VW has said "no" to Fiat also. By looking to *merge* with larger carmakers, he looks like he is desperate to save Fiat but not necessarily as the saviour of the auto industry.

Fiat could look to save smaller car companies, like it saved Chrysler. In Europe, there is PSA Peugeot Citroën. In Japan, there is Suzuki (but Suzuki just bailed out of a bad deal with VW so may be reluctant); there is Mazda (which is not doing well since Ford set it adrift); there is also Fuji Heavy Industries/Subaru. There are Russian automakers. There are Chinese automakers but that would likely be a reverse deal; the Chinese are more likely to want to buy Fiat rather than be sold to Fiat.

There are probably many more (very) small automakers that would not mind help from a much larger automaker.

mmarshall

I agree with you that some of the other smaller companies might need help, but Subaru is doing quite well, especially in the bad-weather parts of the U.S. And, of course, Toyota already owns a part of Subaru.

S2000toIS350

Let's not jinx the auto makers we like by proposing that they merge with FCA.

Fiateral Motors is an amazing idea and I hope Carl Icahn pushes them together.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Since VW is looking for world domination by 2018, maybe they'll revisit the idea

mmarshall

Chrysler sure wasn't jinxed. In fact, they have done a heck of a lot better under Fiat than under Daimler (Mercedes). Of course, the idea of GM, Fiat, and Chrysler all merging together is quite another matter.

Sulu

I think VW would rather buy a near-dead carmaker, not one that comes kicking and screaming with conditions (like Marchionne and Fiat would). Their recent co-habitation followed by a quick parting with Suzuki would have left a really bad taste in their mouths.

mmarshall

If that's the case, Saab would probably be right there for the taking.

S2000toIS350

Isn't Saab past dead?

When was the last time they built a car?

Saab would basically be a brand asset purchase as it makes little sense to start up 9-3 or 9-5 production.

Back to Chrysler bashing. I seem to recall MB losing points wrt quality with Subpar (oops, Mopar) under their umbrella. Without the pentastar logo contaminating their shop floors, MB is now producing some amazing stuff.

The folks here generally like what Mazda and Subie have to offer the world. No need to foul these wonderful people with the Colt 45 and a blunt for lunch crowd that build Chryslers.

Sulu

Typical of GM, it hobbled the sale of Saab right from the start, just like it did with its on-again, off-again sale of GM Europe / Opel / Vauxhall and the sale of Hummer. Before the complete Saab company was sold, GM already sold off the intellectual property (designs) and tooling for the 9-3 and 9-5 models to the Chinese, leaving the company a name only.

And the Saab name and logo are shared with the Saab aerospace company (former owner of the Saab car company). Any company wanting to buy Saab would likely have to negotiate with the defence company for rights to continue using the name. But why buy the name if you may not be able to continue using the name?

mmarshall

Well, that was my point. They are waiting for someone to come along and refinance them. You probably won't see any more new products from them until someone does.


Many recent 2.5L Subies, though, are having oil-consumption problems. There is talk of a class-action suit.

S2000toIS350

MM

Let's try it this way. Many of us here would think positively about getting a family member a used Impreza to go off to school with. Good luck finding someone here who would have the same view regarding about getting a used Avenger (or maybe a Nitro) for that same kid.