I8ABMR

Saw this article and thought it was a great read........and pretty much what I have been saying for decades. Pretty sure this article will interest many here .

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...gineering.html

There are a lot of car stereotypes out there, like that Toyota builds dull appliances. While true on many fronts, the Japanese automaker does also make exciting sporty cars like the Scion FR-S, and Lexus LFA, both praised for their exhilarating rides, edgy styling and pulse-raising performance. But there’s another stereotype that needs to be dealt with.

Likely you’ve heard the phrase “German engineering” more than a few times in your life and there’s a popular misconception that it equals good reliability. German cars are well engineered, sometimes to be amazing performance machines and sometimes to be incredibly high-tech (and often both) but, Porsche aside, German cars don’t have the best track record for reliability.

A REPUTATION EARNED
Part of the reason for the misconception about German engineering is that German automakers did, at one time, earn it. When Consumer Reports started its Long-Term Reliability Tests and Initial Quality Index tests way back in 1972, German brands like Volkswagen and Mercedes-Benz came out on top. The initial quality of even the lowly VW Beetle topped many domestic vehicles from Ford, Jeep, Pontiac and Mercury.

For a while afterwards, Mercedes and VW managed to stay near the top in reliability rankings. But their Japanese rivals weren’t sitting idly-by. In the 1980s and 90s the most reliable models ended up coming from Honda, Toyota, Acura, Infiniti and Lexus.

“Back then, the cars like the Beetle were pretty simple. But then came stronger competition, the Japanese [automakers], especially Toyota and Honda got their problems per 100, down to a science,” Said Gabriel Shenhar, an automotive engineer at Consumer Reports.

A REPUTATION LOST
In the late ‘90s Mercedes had released the dismally unreliable M-Class SUV (left) and the brand’s initial quality scores have plummeted since. Other German brands had similar experiences. Even though they stayed at the forefront of new technology and engineering practices, their new gizmos were prone to failing.

“They’re quick to adapt new technologies but rely on suppliers that supply these technologies and in a lot of cases what we see is problems with the electrical systems, the entertainment systems and other interface,” said Schenhar

According to Consumer Reports, Mercedes boosted its reliability a bit in 2011, but is still inconsistent. The same can be said for Mercedes’ German competitors, Audi and BMW. In Consumer Reports last five annual reports, the last time these German brands have been above average in reliability was back in 2007. Since then, they’ve all slumped below the average in the industry.

Consumer Reports’ Long-Term Reliability test documents a car’s reliability over the course of three years, while the Initial Quality Index is based on consumer feedback from the first few months of a new cars ownership.

Consumer Reports also has a report card that ranks automakers based on their average car score, reliability score and the percentage of recommended vehicles. The average score for these carmaker report cards over the past five years (when they started the report cards) of the German brands doesn’t crack 68/100, below the industry average and the competition from the top Japanese automakers.



These results are reflected in numbers released by J.D. Power & Associates as well. In the both of the latest J.D. Power Surveys, the German brands can’t match up to their luxury peers. In the most recent vehicle dependability survey, Mercedes-Benz only gets a four out of five, which is “Better than most” rating, while Audi and BMW get 3/5 or “About Average.” Volkswagen falls below average with 2/5, what J.D. Power describes as “The Rest.” Porsche is also ranked “Better than most” in J.D. Power’s dependability survey, which give Mercedes-Benz some nice company. It’s important to note that only one car maker had a score of 5/5, and that’s Lexus.

Nothing changes in J.D. Power’s Initial Quality rankings. Mercedes and Porsche have 4/5 ratings, BMW and Audi get just 3/5 and VW only achieves 2/5. Lexus tops that ranking as well with a 5/5.

The J.D. Power ratings are based on consumer surveys. Initial Quality is measured after 90 days of a new car’s purchase. Vehicle Dependability Ratings are surveys based on the past 12 months of original owners of three-year old cars.

POOR RANKING NOT JUST ABOUT QUALITY
Some of the reasons why German cars struggle in J.D. Power’s rankings in the past are entirely trivial and are not related to actual vehicle quality at all says Karl Brauer from Total Car Score.

“German cars didn’t offer cup holders for years, and while this isn’t a mechanical failure it was often noted as a dissatisfaction point for buyers on J.D. Power and Consumer Reports surveys, and this drove down their scores” said Brauer. “Most German cars (even Porsches) now have cup-holders because the manufacturers realized they were suffering in terms of owner satisfaction scores by not having them,” he added. The same thing could be said about some of the complicated technologies and infotainment systems like BMW’s first generation iDrive system (pictured right).

SACRIFICE FOR PERFORMANCE
Along with these more trivial complaints and technology issues, Shenhar of Consumer Reports tells us that German automakers, by their own admission, sometimes come up short because of their singular focus on performance. When and if they cut costs, the likely areas that will get cheaper quality parts will be with some of the stuff the customer might not notice.

“They are susceptible to cost-cutting and anywhere they can, in the hopes that the customer won’t know, they use suppliers that will deliver and sometimes won’t,” says Shenhar.

While the phrase “German Engineering” has become synonymous with reliability, Shenhar suggests it should more accurately be a reference to performance. And in regards to performance, there’s little doubt they have some high standards. In fact, looking away from initial quality and reliability, German vehicles rank quite well.

GERMAN CARS STILL APEAL-ING
In J.D. Power’s Automotive Performance, Execution & Layout (APEAL) study, which looks at how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive, based on owner evaluations, Porsche comes out on top, as the only automaker to get 5/5. Audi, BMW Mercedes and VW all achieve a 4/5 in this survey as well, showing that these cars are no slouch when it comes to performance and execution.

With its new 3-series, BMW has set the bar even higher for sport sedans, and the new Porsche 911 has again solidified the automakers place in automotive history for making the best sports car in the business. It’s no surprise then that both cars were in the running as finalists for the 2012 World Car of the Year Award.

Neither won, however, but that accolade did still go to a German car: the VW up! In fact, it’s VW’s fourth win in the past five years. Winners are selected based on overall merit, value, safety, environmental responsibility, emotional appeal, and significance.

It’s clear then that there are plenty of reasons to buy a car from automakers like BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Volkswagen, but if reliability is your top concern, don’t be fooled by the myth of “German engineering”.

mmarshall

Yes, the VW Beetle (and other rear-engined/air-cooled models) were reliable in the 1970s, but the new VW FWD liquid-cooled vehicles that debuted in 1974/75 and later in the decade (Dasher, Rabbit, Quantum,etc...) were anything BUT reliable. So were the 70s-vintage Audi vehicles based on similar VW products (100LS, 80, 90, Fox, etc....). Consumer Reports gave them all far below average reliability ratings. I remember, in 1975, I worked in a building right next to a VW dealership. Every morning, like clockwork, there would be a line of Rabbits and Dashers, waiting for device and warranty-repairs, stretching out the service-door, a good quarter-mile down the street.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

I never associated German engineering with reliability. I don't know anyone who would say a German car is more reliable than a Japanese one, especially a Lexus. Handling and performance come to mind first, then other intangibles such as presence and 'gravitas' and heritage. That being said, my S550 has given me 7 solid years without major issues.

Stormwind

So even tho your S550 has been solid for 7 years you still don't associate it with being reliable?

Sulu

There is no doubt about German technological innovations and engineering design know-how. Just look at what the Germans have given the automotive world: the first motorcar, the Diesel engine, all the safety innovations that Mercedes-Benz brought us (airbags, ABS, etc.).

But the Japanese have them beat when it comes to attention to (the smallest) detail. This is what has allowed the Japanese to really come out ahead of the Germans. It is this great attention to detail that allowed Toyota (Lexus) to build a better Mercedes-Benz (the first Lexus LS models). And you need great attention to detail in order to build the ever-smaller electronics that work, work well and last (evidence: Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi, Matsu****a (Panasonic)).

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

Strange how that works, right? When i think of reliable cars, japanese still come to mind first. My SC lasted 20 years and was working fine when I sold it.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

hes still a single data point, for every person that didnt have an issue, how many did?

-J-P-L-

I don't know who would actually associate German cars with reliability. I would think after all these years, it would be common knowledge. It is said to not to own one outside of warranty. Hence one of the reasons for the highest lease rates in the industry.

"German engineering" is clearly about performance. But it's how it all comes together to create what many feel is superior handling and driving dynamics. It's incredibly difficult to engineer a bunch of parts and achieve a desired driving dynamic. That is mainly what the Germans excel at. While the Japanese engineer a bunch of parts that work reliably but end up feeling more disconnected from the driver and road. As a result, it is seen that Germans somehow engineer "soul" into their cars.

What you end up buying just comes down to personal preferences and priorities. Neither can be said to be the wrong decision.

RXSF

To me, German Engineering always meant not taking short cuts and over engineering parts. Sometimes that equates to better reliability, but often not. A good example of what I am referring to are trunk hinges that look like pieces of art. Something that is hardly seen or noticed can be so "overly" engineering on a German car. Japanese stick to simply trunk hinges that often protrude into the cargo compartment. Another example

SoaringSC

iTrader: (4)

I'm guessing you also took very good care of your car, too. Did you or someone else keep up with preventative maintenance on it before things ever had a chance to break? Or are you just lucky?

Toys4RJill

This is ridiculous. All of the big boys LS460, A8 and Sclass all have the exact same design for the rear trunk hinges.

But funny enough the A6 from 2011 has eye sore struts that are exposed. Oddly a 2005 Camry has the same design as the A6 with struts.

BUT...A Toyota Avalon from 2015 has the same style trunk hinge as the A8....then the ES350 from 2015 has a cheap cost cut system that merely just hides part of the metal hinge.

mmarshall

IMO, the best trunk-hinge design is the articulated scissors-type that avoids the large metal rods and allows the trunk to be raised past vertical. This system, though, not only costs more to design, but is also harder to integrate into power-operated trunk/hatch-lid systems.

RXSF

At one point in time or another, the S class, A8 all had this type of hinge. Obviously those overly engineered trunk hinges are more rare now because of simply cost cutting.

They were even found on the passat. I dont think there was any other non german vehicle in the same price class that had this style



Another great example to define "German engineering" is the VW Phaeton. The engineers went over the top on that one.

rxonmymind

Very true and that goes on to ring a bell. The trunk hinges on my 2010 350 ISC are pretty robust in addition to being heavy to lift. My wife complains about it now & then. But that hinge you took a pick of never seen anything like it.

Back on topic. The one car that I used to see a lot of when it came to German engineering that ranked right up their with Japanese reliability was the old 76(?) gold colored cars with diesel engines. Not so much now. But many of them were easily reaching the 500k mark. Only thing that stands out in terms or reliability for any German car.

Fizzboy7

I've followed CR for three+ decades and I do not recall the German makes ever showing good reliability. They have always lagged and the Japanese have always succeeded. Only the last few years has Audi pulled in high marks. And Mercedes were unreliable well before the M-class SUV debuted. Some misinformation there.

What people think when they hear "German Engineering" is related to handling and sport. Has nothing to do with the idea of reliability. Even VW's recent commercials say and show the exact same connection.