Porsche calls for an end to the horsepower wars
05-18-15, 06:08 AM
#16
No, I did not mix it up. Horsepower is a measure of unit of work done....the amount of work it takes to lift a 550 lb. weight 1 foot in one second. Torque, though affected by HP, is a different force altogether....a twisting motion, determined by a lever effect. It is what actually comes out the rear of the engine on the output shaft. To simplify it, torque is what accelerates a car; HP determines its top speed.
The correct formula, BTW, is: HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252 (you forgot the 5252 part).
Anyhow, back to the thread topic, I agree with Porsche. IMO we are well past the point of diminishing returns when it comes to just adding more and more power to today's cars. It's like trying to drink more and more beers when you are already drunk enough to pass out.
The correct formula, BTW, is: HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252 (you forgot the 5252 part).
Anyhow, back to the thread topic, I agree with Porsche. IMO we are well past the point of diminishing returns when it comes to just adding more and more power to today's cars. It's like trying to drink more and more beers when you are already drunk enough to pass out.
I am confused how you are able to state contradictions with such authority??? One hand you state that hp is on its own and then you put down the correct formula for HP which clearly shows it is a function of torque.
Anyways, we are in a situation where we are unable to Harness such increases in hp effectively due to them beyond the capabilities of the current transportation infrastructure and the threshold of human abilities.
05-18-15, 06:21 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by chikoo
I am confused how you are able to state contradictions with such authority??? One hand you state that hp is on its own and then you put down the correct formula for HP which clearly shows it is a function of torque.
Anyways, we are in a situation where we are unable to Harness such increases in hp effectively due to them beyond the capabilities of the current transportation infrastructure and the threshold of human abilities.
I grew up with American muscle cars in the 1960s that were running 400 HP +/- and between 400 and 500 ft-lbs. of torque. Those cars alone proved quite dangerous in the hands of immature or overzealous drivers (which is why the insurance premiums skyrocketed on them)....and today, 600-700 HP is not uncommon, though electronic and other safety/traction aids take away at least some of the added risk. Also, starting in 1971, HP was measured in net figures, not gross....so it is not a direct apples-to-apples comparison in time, either.
05-18-15, 07:55 AM
#18
I agree with the concept (partially, since I love classic fire-breathing American muscle cars)
First off you have to change the way Americans think about transportation, and so far there is still a major consensus on high performance vehicles with a stupid amount of horsepower, Even the modern average mini van has better trap times compared to (some) old muscle cars back in the day. However this in turn adds heavy regulated safety features and equipment.
Essentially we will have to unlearn what we have learned
in order to size down and wise up.
First off you have to change the way Americans think about transportation, and so far there is still a major consensus on high performance vehicles with a stupid amount of horsepower, Even the modern average mini van has better trap times compared to (some) old muscle cars back in the day. However this in turn adds heavy regulated safety features and equipment.
Essentially we will have to unlearn what we have learned
in order to size down and wise up.
05-18-15, 08:45 AM
#20
No, I did not mix it up. Horsepower is a measure of unit of work done....the amount of work it takes to lift a 550 lb. weight 1 foot in one second. Torque, though affected by HP, is a different force altogether....a twisting motion, determined by a lever effect. It is what actually comes out the rear of the engine on the output shaft. To simplify it, torque is what accelerates a car; HP determines its top speed.
The correct formula, BTW, is: HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252 (you forgot the 5252 part).
...
The correct formula, BTW, is: HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252 (you forgot the 5252 part).
...
05-18-15, 12:22 PM
#22
I have no problem with old tech. I drive a 92 SC400. I don't ask for more than I need...so I always have enough. Porsche is making newer models....but they're actually shoe-horning the same motors along their product lines/chassis/models......
05-18-15, 01:00 PM
#23
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The Porsche spits out new engines left and right, you may think they are old since its pretty much and h6 each time but they are all new motors.
05-18-15, 01:12 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
MM, I just want this clarified for anyone looking for information on Torque and HP, and stumbling upon this thread to not be confused. As you can see above (red letters), is confusing. The formula for HP clearly states it to be a function of Torque, but your words state quite the opposite.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-18-15 at 01:18 PM.
05-18-15, 01:27 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
You could address the red letters. Perhaps you are wrong? Wrong it incorrectly? Honestly, I stay away from most of your posts for the exact reasons I just wrote above. From the looks of the red letters, you might be wrong . ....
05-18-15, 01:27 PM
#26
I have to believe that if anything the HP wars will get more intense instead of less
Now that we are in the turbo era, it is more expectable for manufacturers to beef up inner stuff and dial up boost and keep incrementing their output.
The P car guy can say what he wants but at the end of the day, who believes that the next Bugatti (part of the same VW umbrella P resides in) will have less power than the Veyron.
A lot of this will be forced by McLaren. They are still trying to be a stable company and have taken a build volume through rapid iteration and promoting the mo power is mo better song.
Now that we are in the turbo era, it is more expectable for manufacturers to beef up inner stuff and dial up boost and keep incrementing their output.
The P car guy can say what he wants but at the end of the day, who believes that the next Bugatti (part of the same VW umbrella P resides in) will have less power than the Veyron.
A lot of this will be forced by McLaren. They are still trying to be a stable company and have taken a build volume through rapid iteration and promoting the mo power is mo better song.
05-18-15, 01:43 PM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
I addressed them.....several times. I'm just not going to address them all afternoon...particularly when I've made my point.
With all due respect, whether you comment on my posts or not is your prerogative. I won't get into that.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-18-15 at 08:29 PM.
05-18-15, 02:58 PM
#29
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05-18-15, 03:09 PM
#30
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Maybe it's VAG that feels Porsche shouldn't cross that line. Whatever the reason is, making a car with that massive horse then come to announce that they will not make a high hp car more than they are currently making is so contradicting themselves.