spwolf

German AMS tested VW Up!, Mercedes C class, NISSAN Qashqai, MINI Cooper S, Subaru Outback, and VOLVO V60 in their own pedestrian test, and only Subaru passed... rest of them hit the pedestrian.


edit: AMS now has the full article:

Article is now published on AMS.de... they used best system available for each vehicle. It would have been crazy to expect of them to gimp MB.



And results show that we should never trust acronyms and PR to determine how effective some car system is...

- Subaru was the best system with low amount of false warnings and always stopping.
- Volvo was right behind it - it would sometimes shut off on its own and it hit the dummies but with much smaller force..
- Nissan was the worst of them all. C class right behind Nissan.
- C class had €2500 optional package which included all of the safety tech... together with base system, thats €2800 total.
- Mini was decent overall, and VW up was limited since it uses laser than sees only 10m ahead.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

(moved to its own thread as not about lexus safety system)

mmarshall

Interesting video, but most of us probably don't speak in German.

Since the Outback stopped short of the others, it seems like more of a braking test than an actual pedestrian safety test. Of course, obviously, it is safer to avoid hitting a pedestrian in the first place...so maybe that is what the test was getting at.

It's also interesting, since Subaru is a manufacturer that is not usually known for Porsche-style stopping distances. As an overall brand, rear-engined Porsches often have the shortest stopping distances, because, under heavy braking, the forward weight-transfer of the engine and drivetrain in back places the center of gravity close to the center of the car, where all four brakes/tires can do an equal share of the work.

TangoRed

The Mercedes system almost seemed to be prepared to execute a hit and run. Stopped pretty far after hitting the object.

These fake tests are always hard for me to take seriously because you know each manufacturer did their own tests and the systems worked just fine.

pbm317

Um this is EXACTLY what this test is trying to get at. But as you said since most of us here don't speak German, it's hard to gauge whether it was apples to apples. Certain manufacturer systems are only designated to work at very specific speeds.

I will say Subaru's EyeSight system is pretty effective. It is able to come to a stop, just as shown above, but again it has specific parameters under which it can work. Above certain speeds, the Subaru would have blown through that pedestrian without even attempting to stop. The Subaru system also won't let you accelerate at full throttle initially if there is still a car in front of you. It also pings to notify you if the car in front of you has departed. You know, just in case you're busy looking down at your phone.

RXSF

I'm at work and can't watch the video. Did it say anything about whether the MB system had the optional distronic safety package? The car is standard with collision prevention assist but that is essentially a weaker version

spwolf

honestly, thats like saying that car mags should not do track tests because manufacturers tested these cars and they work fine.

Point of testing is to compare - all these systems work differently, just like all cars feel different, accelerate different, brake different... in this german test, all but Subaru failed to stop before hitting a pedestrian hence there is a huge difference between them.

spwolf

dont know...it will appear in next month's issue... I doubt they gimped German manufacturer and besides, as much as we know and we discussed before, distronic package is only for much higher speeds.

Apparently Subaru has by far the best system sold today... new Toyota cheap system rated as well in Japanese tests, but lets see what happens in tests like these.

mmarshall

OK...well, you helped clarity that. I wasn't aware they were testing the automatic-stop systems, and that the dummy-pedestrians were being spotted by camera....I thought drivers were in control.

TangoRed

Eh no, not really. Track tests how where an automakers priorities are and how the handle various situations- there's no defined question. This is why you get verdicts such as "Absolute track weapon but terrible ride quality in the street." They can also measure the quality of the engineering like this test claims to, but not just that.

This tests asks one question- Does it hit the pedestrian or not? I don't speak German, but I'm assuming this test also assumes all cars have the intention of stopping before hitting the dummy and not just lessening the impact.

When I said these tests are hard for me to take seriously, I mean because this tests might not accurately reflect a pedestrian in some manufacturers eyes. The "pedestrian" itself in this test was actually static and moving along a track. Does these systems look for some type of movement of arms, legs? I don't know.

RXSF

I won't get into it again as in the Lexus thread, but if you get distronic, you also get presafe brake with pedestrian detection which works up to 35mph

same test here, pedestrian test at :50 and the S class stops in time

JessePS

I had a feeling the Subaru would win. I am just surprised Volvo, failed. I guess that is why they are working on pedestrian airbags.

spwolf

difference between S class, C class, manufacturer PR test of unknown speeds vs german magazine test with same conditions for different vehicles. Besides, C class already did not do that well on EuroNCAP so we know its system is not advanced.

RXSF

I think I mentioned in the previous Lexus safety thread that the ncap did not test the C class with the extra driver assistance package, only with the collision prevention assist standard system. If you read the notes on the report, it says that lane departure was not included in the video, and since the distronic safety package includes lade departure, then that means the test vehicle did not have the more advanced precollision system

test was also performed on the C class. My understanding is that the systems in the C are the same as the S

spwolf

i have no idea why do you keep posting manufacturer videos... what are you trying to prove with manufacturer video? In reality, nobody knows for sure how this supposedly better system performs in real life, because nobody tested it - EuroNCAP never tested MB that passed all of its tests.

We have here the test from AMS, with same conditions for 6-7 different vehicles, and C class failed the test... showing us different manufacturer video which was done at different speeds, means really nothing.

Purpose of these independent tests is to different systems under same conditions and not blindly post what manufacturer PR says.

Every single system here would have worked if tested at best conditions for it, like what manufacturers do... so thats why it is important to have independent testing... just like it is important for mags to test braking power, and not just take manufacturer word that it will stop the vehicle... we need to see the differences in these systems as they are really important, even more important than differences between 0-60, 60-0, skidpad, track numbers, and all the other test data we like to read. When buying vehicle, customers do not get this information from the manufacturer.

There is no need to defend MB in every magazine test we post here. They simply need to do better in their automated braking systems, without having to tripple check if appropriate acronym is included. Yes, they are better than BMW and VW/Audi, but they are also worse than other manufacturers that obviously have more advanced systems as test here has shown.