Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Sums it up nicely.

I'd add Audi to the mix if we're talking globally. An array of petrol, diesel, hybrid, ev, powertrains. A/S/RS model lines, Quattro identity, race pedigree and programs, W12, R8 existence make it a strong competitor.

I do love those wild cards from Maserati, Jaguar and Cadillac. All of which are starting to gather steam.

A three row Lexus crossover is very important, but it is coming. Honestly its a toss up between volume and brand image. They need both.

Lexus needs a coupe to temporarily fill a niche left by the SC and currently haphazardly substituted by the IS C. It may be a more niche segment but it is an essential one for the brands image. Gearing up to sell more consistent six-figure cars requires a vast array of models and trims. The RC establishes itself among the ranks of affordable () core performance luxury models (IS and GS) from Lexus. The three likely to consolidate a lightweight rwd/awd chassis capable of 4, 6 and 8 cylinders. Eventually the LC coupe will slot above the RC.

mmarshall

Would you consider the IS-C and 2Gen SC, though, to be true coupes? Technically, they are both hard-top convertibles.

LoveCT

Do you think that creating F-Sport marque and marketing the 400h are good reasons to be considered a credible fighter in the Luxury category along the storied lines of Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche? Since when keeping a high sales volume, that is mostly built by selling re-branded Toyota products, albeit with more Sponge, Chrome and Leather in the short term is an important criteria to build a Luxury Brand?
Sorry, these reasons really didn't work for me and that's why I responded accordingly. A credible Luxury brand will be based on a rich pedigree of innovation, improvisation and exclusivity. All of the German makes (ABMP) have that. Lexus on the other hand is is watering down its brand that will only be its detriment in the future.
Oh and the comment about Hyundai? How long again did it take Lexus from nowhere to here? And how is Hyundai not treading a similar path to become a credible threat in the future?

Just as an example, Volvo is releasing its XC90 in a 4 cylinder with turbo charger and supercharger in a plug-in electric hybrid that is good for a combined 400 horses with small carbon footprint. Such is the competition these days and it didn't even register a ripple in the automotive world.

I would definitely add Porsche, at least its SUV's, and the JLR brand combined in the serious competition. Jaguar and Volvo are examples why removing a mass market brand from being a parent to a luxury brand is likely a good thing. Another down but definitely not out (yet) brand is Acura. God how much I hate to see it come down from the days of Legend (that made Toyota launch Lexus as a brand, if I am not mistaken) NSX, Integra, RSX, TL and the like. Hope the resurgence starts from the new NSX.

RNM GS3

I was referring to around the world hence my point about the growth of the China market.
China is already the largest auto market and it will only grow larger in the coming years.
Eastern Europe is another growing area.
Western Europe is controlled by Euro autos.

In 5-10 yrs Lexus would possibly be irrelevant globally as a Tier 1 Luxury competitor if new LS is a failure....
Also in the US - Lexus marketshare has decreased. It also has no prescence in the 100k + range or even 75k + range.

SW17LS

Lexus is not only a "credible fighter" in the luxury category, it's been #1, it remains in the top 2 or 3 in U.S. sales. Lexus really has had a huge impact on the luxury car industry, anybody who follows the automotive industry will cede that.

As for Hyundai. I have no doubt Hyundai can build a great luxury car. They are doomed to failure in the U.S. though because of their decision not to create a luxury brand and marque. U.S. buyers need the validation of a brand.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Your words not mine. Not sure how you can misconstrue "haphazardly substituted", but anyway of course not. IS C until the addition of the RC was the only two door currently offered by Lexus since the current demise/hiatus of the SC. Simply just a stand-in while Lexus organizes their stable accordingly.

RNM GS3

^
They are hanging in there but their products are now not competitive especially in terms of powertrains to the 3 Germans. They also dont have the range of models the German 3 offer nor are they as consistent or as frequent in updating them.
Dont even get me started on performance models, coupes, roadstrs convertibles.
Lexus is lacking in ALL areas.....

mmarshall

I'm not sure what you mean here ......... I didn't use or attempt to define the words "haphazardly substituted". (perhaps you mistakenly quoted someone or something else)? I merely asked if you considered those two hard-top convertibles to be coupes? Obviously, with the tops up, they take on some characteristics of a coupe.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Kinda has to fill both shoes (coupe and convertible)

rxonmymind

What I'd like to see is to give buyers the option of Lexus various engines when looking to purchase an RX 350. If a buyer wants the V8 give it to him. Be nice if they had a diesel option. 306 HP V6? Done. So forth. This is the ultimate customization and is available with the Mercedes line of SUV and I'd REALLY like to see Lexus offer a range of engine options.

What leaves me scratching my head is how Lexus trumpets the "F-sport" line RX yet gives the exact same 270 HP engine as the regular RX. Ditto with the "Crafted line". 270 HP. The only exception is the 400h with 295. I mean holy mackerel starting at 48k-50k let's offer more than one engine option folks.
Yet go over to the RC-F with it's available 467hp and why couldn't one ask for that to be put in RX350 F-sport? Heck the regular RC has 306hp. That would be a nice upgrade albeit a small one. This would quiet much of the criticism of Lexus "not keeping up with the Germans". Including me.
The engines are there. They just have to make them available.

Mr Bond

BMW and Audi does not get increased power with M and S line package , but the huge difference is that an X5, 6 and Q5 and so on are pretty sporty, fast and fun to drive even as a base model without every kind of "sport" styling. Lexus RX or NX are not, and the F package does not change that.

mmarshall

I guess you could say that, then, about any 2-door power-hard-top vehicle, including the power-top Miata and the now-discontinued Pontiac G6.

spwolf

Honestly, thats a lot of nonsense.

Lexus is fastest growing luxury brand, sales went up 40% worldwide in past 3 years, and they keep growing. Russian sales in particular grow at fast rate. It is also fastest growing luxury brand in the USA.

As to the sales in China, they matter little to you buying car in the USA. I dont think you should care if Lexus builds local factory in China or not, to sell ES200t or not.

Just like someone buying a Passat in Germany, does not know or care that Camry outsells Passat worldwide by 50% or that Corolla outsells Golf or that Rav4 murders Tiguan.

Should they switch to Toyota in Germany, since it is so superior worldwide?

As to the engines, as you might have noticed, they introduced new 2.0t, and new RX has new V6 as well. So by the end of the year, most of the engines will be brand new.

For 90% of the buyers who buy base engines in all of the vehicles we are talking about, I would argue that Lexus will have superior choices. For those 5%-10% that are willing to pay more for faster engines Lexus introduced RC-F & GS-F. For rest of the 2%-3% left over, Lexus does not have anything to offer right now, you are correct... thats why I said they need "R" PR models that they offer for $100k+ even if sales are small, it would help their PR and forum wars.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

So start listening dang-it!

Toys4RJill

I could agree with some of what you are saying. Lexus lately has been taking short cuts that if they continue will only hurt them later on down the road. Their powertrains and how long they have neglected them has really annoyed me. I have to lump Toyota models in their as well, the current 3.5 (while good) has not been upgraded in how long? The same 6 speeds have not been changed in how long? I find it inexcusable and eventually they will suffer. Toyota and Lexus of the past never let things go so long, even small minor tweaks and changes I am happy with.

I really hope the new 2.0t in the NX does not span 11 model years with no changes.