Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

C&D Test: RC350 F-sport, S5, ATS Coupe 3.6

Old 05-06-15, 09:19 AM
  #1  
GFerg
Speaks French in Russian

Thread Starter
 
GFerg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: What is G?
Posts: 13,244
Received 54 Likes on 42 Posts
Default C&D Test: RC350 F-sport, S5, ATS Coupe 3.6



Third: 2015 Lexus RC350 F Sport

Highs:
Quiet and composed for a pleasant ride home through clotted traffic. Earns a front row from parking attendants.

Lows:
Needs more power, less weight, better handling, and a more intelligent interior.

Verdict:
Lexus, please dig a little deeper in your LFA database to help this poor child.


Second: 2015 Cadillac ATS Coupe 3.6

Highs:
Light on its feet, a true back-road Timberlake.

Lows:
Needs major underhood therapy and a new clue . . . er CUE . . . on the dash.

Verdict:
We're encouraged by Cadillac's post-wreath anti-ennui initiative.


First: 2015 Audi S5

Highs:
Well-rounded set of attributes, entertaining performance, high-quality execution.

Lows:
Heavy, long of tooth, subdued exterior design.

Verdict:
Audi has cracked the sports-coupe code.


Sports coupes reside in that Rhode Island-sized space between fully indulgent sports cars and eminently sensible sports sedans. To earn its garage slot, a coupe must adroitly juggle three somewhat contradictory attributes: sex appeal, driving joy, and 2+2 practicality.

The three premium coupes in contention here pit youthful cunning against confident maturity. The Cadillac ATS and Lexus RC350 F Sport are the class's pop celebs; think Justins, as in Timberlake and Bieber. Hollywood legend Clint Eastwood-with 60 years of acting, directing, and scoring to his credit-is the Audi S5 analogue. Roots reaching back to 2007 didn't inhibit Audi's veteran sports coupe from busting BMW's then-new 435i in our 2014 comparison test, so we took it and threw it against these fresh newcomers.

Achieving spec parity for this $50,000-plus trio was a challenge. While the Cadillac and the Lexus both offer four-wheel drive, a core Audi standard feature, ordering that option adds weight and cost we chose to avoid. Also, the S5 is the perform¬ance A5, whereas the four-wheel-drive ATS and RC350 coupes are intended more as all-weather interceptors than dry-road speeders, as indicated by the following facts: Cadillac locks you out of the ATS's most aggressive suspension and Lexus doesn't include rear steering if you choose four driven wheels.

A V-6 is standard in the Audi and Lexus, so selecting Cadillac's 3.6-liter six made more sense than going with its power-lean, torque-rich 2.0-liter turbo four. That choice aligns the three power peaks, though Audi's supercharged-small-displacement strategy gives the S5 a significant torque advantage-325 pound-feet versus Cadillac's 275 and Lexus's 277. Most of that extra grunt is nixed by the S5's prodigious curb weight (3954 pounds), or 70 pounds more than the RC350 and 394 pounds heavier than this ATS coupe.

To winnow the great from the merely good, we ran these two-doors through our test gantlet in California City, California, then mounted a southwesterly trek crossing the San Andreas Fault to Jalama Beach on the Pacific Ocean. Thanks to tectonics run amok, fastidiously maintained national-forest roads, perfect weather, and minimal traffic, we enjoyed hundreds of miles that are worth replicating in heaven. All right, who's feeling lucky?

COMPARISON TESTS
Digging deep to create what it considers a "radical coupe" (which is the model name decoded), Lexus combined its hottest V-6, portions of the ISand GS unibodies, and some ambitious chassis hardware, along with lessons learned from its LFA supercar. Designers contributed a spindle grille mean enough to wind steel cable, aggressively sculpted side surfaces, Vegas-grade lighting, and many air vents, some of which actually function. Inside, there's a lavish array of stitching and trim in several hues and surface finishes. Combining the underlying Lexus spirit-a supremely smooth, quiet ride-with optional F Sport equipment brings enhanced performance to drivers of widely varying skill levels.

Our $43,715 RC350 base test car was embellished with a $3985 F Sport package (faux-leather sport seats, variable dampers, exterior trim, and 19-inch wheels and ¬summer tires), a $2610 navigation and entertainment upgrade, a $1900 variable-ratio-steering and rear-steering combo, and $2195 worth of other options.

Some of Lexus's dreams come true, many do not. In the normal driving mode, the RC350 shows poise any grandma would love. The engine hums with nary a harsh note. The transmission hurries to overdrive, ride motions are plush, the steering is light to the touch. Turn-signal clicks are barely audible.

Twist the mode selector to sport-plus and an alternative personality stirs. The suspension stiffens, the steering quickens, and the engine hustles toward the redline with bared teeth. Unfortunately, perform¬ance parity proves elusive. The test's poorest power-to-weight ratio lands the RC350 in third place for acceleration and passing. Grip deficiencies and mediocre weight distribution stretch stopping distance and hobble cornering speed. Hustled through the slalom cones, this car turns enthusiastically, then stumbles into crippling understeer. Are the rear-steering wheels, the tires, or the engineers to blame? We suspect all are.

Back-road moves are also a mess. The light, quick steering fools you into diving into bends too aggressively for the available grip. Brake-pedal mushiness saps confidence. Ride motions are jiggly and induce abundant head toss.

The interior report is just as grim. In spite of the test's highest roof, front and rear entry is a chore. In back, the view out is restricted, cup holders are AWOL, and there's minimal wriggle room. Front-bucket comfort and lateral support are excellent, but while the Audi and Cadillac provide adjustable thigh cushions, Lexus skipped that feature. Outward visibility is hurt by a high cowl and oversized mirrors.

The touchpad that operates the RC350's infotainment gear is a good idea and a convenient reach, but matching mouse motion to cursor position is tedious. One cool feature is a gorgeous electronic tach that can slide horizontally to reveal secondary gauges. The mystery is why speed is reported only digitally when there's ample black space under the instrument shroud, used only for a few warning lights.

Overall, the Lexus RC350 feels dithered, as if Justin Bieber shuffled onstage after a tour-bus binge.

Encouraging news: Cadillac's by-the-gram weight-saving strategy and focus on core attributes such as structural rigidity, chassis balance, and driving dynamics paid off with a sports coupe that's a worthy alternative to imported rivals.

The exterior design is intentionally less polarizing than the CTS and ELRcoupes. That spots the ATS comfortably between the classic S5 and the flashy RC350. Proving that this brand is serious about shedding more of its fat-and-finned baggage, this is the first production Caddy in half a century without a wreath to fossilize its crest, which has also been modernized.

To invade nearly every sports-coupe nook and cranny from $40,000 to $60,000, the ATS coupe is available with a choice of two engines, stick or automatic six-speed transmissions, rear- or four-wheel drive, and four trim levels. Our $52,315 Premium-package 3.6 test car was enriched with but one option: a $995 "Red Obsession" paint job. Alert the authorities.

The ATS's strategic advantage is this test's lightest weight and best balance. Thanks to a chassis tuned for minimal understeer and a decent set of Bridgestone Potenza RE050A run-flat tires in staggered sizes, the ATS topped the field in cornering grip and maneuverability (slalom) testing. Adding throttle at the adhesion limit glides the tail in manageable increments, a rare quality in today's cars. This ATS also earned braking kudos with a 70-to-zero stopping distance 21 feet shorter than the RC350's and 10 feet better than the S5's.

Acceleration was less endearing. Even though the ATS packs the largest-displacement, highest-revving engine, it bows to the Audi S5's superior combination of torque, traction, and shorter gearing. (A lighter Performance-edition ATS powered by a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder and equipped with a manual transmission was slightly slower in previous testing.)

Logbook entries worshipped the ATS's road manners. The ride is firm but never verges on the painful, with body motions appropriately snubbed at speed. Steering response and effort are both nicely calibrated to buttress the driver's sense of command. The brake pedal responds to pressure instead of travel, providing clear feedback and easy modulation. Add grip that keeps on sticking and you've got a sports coupe that beats the S5 in entertainment values, if only by a hair.

Unfortunately, the ATS's powertrain doesn't carry its share of the freight. The engine shakes like a frigid canine at idle and howls like a tormented cat when running to the redline. At least the transmission makes amends by holding gears until the driver taps a paddle shifter, the only autobox in this test so fully obedient.

The ATS's back-seat entry is inhibited by front belts that won't get out of the way. The front buckets have barely enough backrest wrap, lower bolster firmness, or upholstery grip to lock an occupant securely in place when the driver takes full advantage of this car's handling prowess.

Cadillac's CUE infotainment-control arrangement drew screams of indignation. The major issue is the touch-sensitive screen, with buttons that are finicky and difficult to manage with a limb wobbling in space. We prefer the more comfortable and user-friendly console-**** approach.

The ATS's strong second-place finish earns it the Justin Timberlake trophy. This Cadillac is clearly steeped in talent, but there's more potential left. We assume that the coming V edition will bump it up a notch.
Yes, it's familiar-looking, expensive, and seemingly past its sell-by date, but none of that stopped the Audi S5 from winning this comparison without breaking a sweat. The key to its success is a compelling repertoire. Every move this sports coupe makes affirms its champion status.

This middle child of Audi's 5 family starts at $53,425. Our test car was blessed with four options: a $2900 Technology package (navigation, infotainment, side warning, and rear parking assist), a $1400 seven-speed dual-clutch automatic trans, an $1100 torque-vectoring rear differential, and $500 carbon interior-trim adornments.

When Audi replaced its stunning 4.2-liter V-8 with a supercharged 3.0-liter V-6 two years ago, there was much gnashing of teeth, but the downsizing turned out to be a shrewd move. In spite of a slight loss of power, the broader torque curve and improved front-rear mass distribution paid huge dividends: more-agile handling, quicker acceleration, and two additional miles per gallon (partially attributable to a seventh gear added to the transmission).

Aside from the powertrain changes, Audi has resisted fiddling with its successful formula, indicative of its grasp of well-rounded performance. The supercharged V-6 and the seven-speed dual-clutch automatic bond here like Thelma and Louise. A nudge of the throttle delivers a subdued growl and an endearing swell of thrust, multiplied by a smooth downshift if you demand more. Seldom exploiting all of its 6800-rpm rev range, the S5 is the swiftest car here by a wide margin. Whipped, its engine sings opera that shames the Cad and Lex.

The S5 lands behind the Cadillac in handling and braking in part because it's heavier. On the skidpad, when front-tire grip begins to wilt, coaxing this Audi back in line is difficult. Its penchant for understeer also impedes this car in the slalom. But on the road, supple damping plus ideally orchestrated steering effort and response do indeed make your day.

Audi seals the deal with an ambassador-grade cabin. Except for one gripe about too-aggressive lumbar support, the firm-but-supportive front seats generated high praise. The rears are more accessible, roomier, and better furnished than those in the ATS and RC350. While all the rear backrests fold and split, this is the only one with a fold-down armrest and a pass-through for skis.

Trim fits and finishes are impeccable, and Audi's MMI **** is our favorite for infotainment control. The S5's instrumentation is traditional but flawless from legibility and aesthetic perspectives. And this is the only sports coupe here providing a handy slot in its console for a smartphone.

For its versatility, engaging personality, and convincing performance, this German Gran Torino may be a fistful of dollars more, but it still earns our Dirty Harry achievement award.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Last edited by GFerg; 05-06-15 at 09:22 AM.
GFerg is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 09:37 AM
  #2  
evident
Racer
 
evident's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,381
Received 76 Likes on 62 Posts
Default

is the chassis and ride of the RC350 that much different than the IS that places the RC last in this comparo, while the IS got almost universally stellar reviews?
evident is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 10:06 AM
  #3  
Hoovey689
Moderator
iTrader: (16)
 
Hoovey689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 42,283
Received 122 Likes on 82 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by evident
is the chassis and ride of the RC350 that much different than the IS that places the RC last in this comparo, while the IS got almost universally stellar reviews?
RC chassis is a little Frankenstein. Front end is L10 4GS, mid-section is XE20 IS C (2IS) and rear end is XE30 IS (3IS). Since the latter three were conceived before the RC's existence, hopefully a platform to underpin a future 5GS, 4IS and RC and RC convertible would be lighter
Hoovey689 is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 11:40 AM
  #4  
LeX2K
Lexus Champion
 
LeX2K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Alberta
Posts: 19,302
Received 2,682 Likes on 2,272 Posts
Default

Knew the order the cars would come in even before clicking this thread.
LeX2K is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 11:51 AM
  #5  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 90,511
Received 83 Likes on 82 Posts
Default

Audi, in some ways, seems to have more or less taken the niche in the auto-market where BMW used to be...The Ultimate Driving Machine. BMW's own demise in the way they recently design and build their cars, of course, doesn't help any, either. That said, there's also no denying that the ATS has also propelled Cadillac clearly into the midst of the sporting crowd.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 12:33 PM
  #6  
TangoRed
Lead Lap
 
TangoRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 4,585
Received 24 Likes on 18 Posts
Default

The only hope for this class from my perspective is the upcoming C-class coupe and Infiniti Q60. None of the newest crop of sports coupes has moved the needle.
TangoRed is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 12:40 PM
  #7  
Aron9000
Lexus Champion
 
Aron9000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: TN
Posts: 4,592
Received 28 Likes on 27 Posts
Default

I really wish Cadillac would quit screwing around with that lackluster 3.6 V6, its been a dud IMO ever since they introduced it a decade ago. Their turbo 4 powerplant is just as fast in instrumented testing, and way faster in the seat-0-pants meter due to its prodigious torque curve.

What Cadillac really needs IMO is to just throw in the drive-train from a Chevy pickup, the 5.3 V8 or maybe put in the 6.2 V8 Escalade motor as an option to the standard 5.3 V8. Cadillac=V8 IMO. Those would definetly scoot a 3500lb ATS along nicely.

I'm sick of Cadillac not offering a mid-line V8 option(or a decent V6) in their lower line cars. Few people can afford a 650hp, $85,000 land missle CTS-V or want the compromises that come with what is basically a Corvette with a sedan body. I'm glad Cadillac has the ***** to make the CTS-V, but something more affordable and smoothing riding with a V8 would be nice too.
Aron9000 is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 12:42 PM
  #8  
I8ABMR
Lexus Fanatic
 
I8ABMR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Waiting for next track day
Posts: 22,609
Received 100 Likes on 65 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Lexus2000
Knew the order the cars would come in even before clicking this thread.
yup !! Come on Lexus !! Get it together. Enough with the me too cars. Kick some ***
I8ABMR is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 12:59 PM
  #9  
Hoovey689
Moderator
iTrader: (16)
 
Hoovey689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 42,283
Received 122 Likes on 82 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Aron9000
I'm sick of Cadillac not offering a mid-line V8 option(or a decent V6) in their lower line cars.
The case can be made for a number of manufacturers
Hoovey689 is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 01:29 PM
  #10  
EZZ
Lexus Test Driver
 
EZZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 7,460
Received 227 Likes on 170 Posts
Default

The comments on the RC make no sense. IS350 was said to have best in class interior and 2nd best handling. How is the RC different...exactly the same interior and is the extra 200lbs that detrimental to handling?
EZZ is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 01:37 PM
  #11  
JDR76
Lexus Champion
 
JDR76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 12,326
Received 1,603 Likes on 1,021 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by EZZ
The comments on the RC make no sense. IS350 was said to have best in class interior and 2nd best handling. How is the RC different...exactly the same interior and is the extra 200lbs that detrimental to handling?
To be fair, though, the issues they point out with the interior are not present on the IS. They don't share a lot more than the dashboard.

Originally Posted by Car & Driver
The interior report is just as grim. In spite of the test’s highest roof, front and rear entry is a chore. In back, the view out is restricted, cup holders are AWOL, and there’s minimal wriggle room. Front-bucket comfort and lateral support are excellent, but while the Audi and Cadillac provide adjustable thigh cushions, Lexus skipped that feature. Outward visibility is hurt by a high cowl and oversized mirrors.
Entry is different/easier in the 4 door, outward vision is better in the IS, the IS has rear cup holders, etc.
JDR76 is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 03:18 PM
  #12  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 90,511
Received 83 Likes on 82 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Aron9000
I really wish Cadillac would quit screwing around with that lackluster 3.6 V6, its been a dud IMO ever since they introduced it a decade ago. Their turbo 4 powerplant is just as fast in instrumented testing, and way faster in the seat-0-pants meter due to its prodigious torque curve.
The name of the game with the 3.6L is not necessarily power, but refinement. Sure, the turbo four may be more fun for enthusiasts, but not everyone actually wants it.

I'm sick of Cadillac not offering a mid-line V8 option(or a decent V6) in their lower line cars. Few people can afford a 650hp, $85,000 land missle CTS-V or want the compromises that come with what is basically a Corvette with a sedan body. I'm glad Cadillac has the ***** to make the CTS-V, but something more affordable and smoothing riding with a V8 would be nice too.
CAFE rules are probably going to kill of most V8s except for dedicated performance cars and work trucks. The sooner we accept it, the less of a shock (or PITA) it is going to be.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 03:53 PM
  #13  
TangoRed
Lead Lap
 
TangoRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Washington
Posts: 4,585
Received 24 Likes on 18 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall
The name of the game with the 3.6L is not necessarily power, but refinement. Sure, the turbo four may be more fun for enthusiasts, but not everyone actually wants it.
Funny you say that seeing as how the 3.6L V6 is so roundly criticized for its lack of refinement. Point taken though.
TangoRed is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 04:16 PM
  #14  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 90,511
Received 83 Likes on 82 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by TangoRed
Funny you say that seeing as how the 3.6L V6 is so roundly criticized for its lack of refinement. Point taken though.
I've sampled the 3.6L V6 in a couple of Cadillacs and other GM products. I found it smooth and quiet in all normal driving (4000 RPM and below)....but, of course, didn't red-line it to see how buzzy it was at the limit. Some enthusiast-reviewers will pan a regular piston engine if it doesn't spin electric-motor or rotary-engine-smooth, even at redline.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 05-06-15, 04:21 PM
  #15  
Hoovey689
Moderator
iTrader: (16)
 
Hoovey689's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 42,283
Received 122 Likes on 82 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by TangoRed
Funny you say that seeing as how the 3.6L V6 is so roundly criticized for its lack of refinement. Point taken though.
I've driven a 2014 CTS AWD with the 3.6, I do agree it sounds rough (Autoweek said the same in their review of an ATS same engine), though I also think this of the coarse Infiniti 3.7 especially in G37 guise, Q50 suppresses some of that through better insulation.
Hoovey689 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: C&D Test: RC350 F-sport, S5, ATS Coupe 3.6



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:38 AM.