clamsoup

So Im going to go out on a limb by saying this

1. The height of automotive greatness in terms of styling 1969-1979. And then again from 1989-2005.

2. Height of automotive greatness in terms of engineering 1992- 2004. then again 2006-2009.

Discuss!

mmarshall

Well, of course, styling is objective, but, on American-market vehicles at least, I think it's difficult to claim that the 1970s was the epitome of styling. That was the decade (staring in 1973) that introduced the big 5-MPH bumpers that looked like battering rams, and stuck out from the vehicles like a sore thumb.





Actually, the 1970's, which was such a disaster for styling and engine-performance, also gave us a number of notable engineering improvements........widespread use of power front disc brakes, electronic solid-state ignition that eliminated breaker-points/manual distributors and periodic tune-ups, longer-lasting, cleaner running spark plugs, the catalytic converter, MUCH cleaner-running cars and engines, and rack-and-pinion steering. Air bags and anti-lock brakes were also invented in the early 70s, but safety did not sell back then......it took until the 1990s for them to become widespread in upscale production vehicles. The technology was there in the 1970s to get rid of troublesome carburetors (which were a PITA) and replace them with either manual or electronic fuel-injection...but, unfortunately, the industry dragged its feet and actually did not do so until ten years later....the late 1980s. And, at the end of the 1970s, in late 1979, with the 1980 AMC Eagle and Audi Quattro systems, came the world's first car-based, center-differential AWD systems, IMO one of the greatest automotive engineering advancements of all time.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

The height of American automotive styling was to me, was the 50s. Such imaginative and forward styling. We led the world.

Height of engineering is the present.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

LOL

could it be because you own a vehicle in those periods?

automotive greatness in styling in 1969-1979? like what, an AMC Pacer?

i think design improves in fits and starts but almost all older designs and engineering to me becomes just that, old.

because of tech and materials and mfg improvements, we have led lights, aluminum and carbon fiber in more mainstream vehicles, better brakes, suspensions, engines, WAAAAY safer, better looking wheels, better tires, basically better everything.

-J-P-L-

Couldn't disagree more.

Cars looked awful during those years.

Now is the height of everything automotive.

Best looking and by far most diverse styling.
Most well built, most reliable.
Most powerful cars ever offered, most fuel efficient cars ever offered.
Most vehicle types ever offered, by far, most models ever to choose from.

And technical advancement, comfort, luxury, features, safety, ....., are at their heights which is undebatable.

mmarshall

Yes, the Pacer was one of my first memories of 70s styling, too (and it is one of the few cars I never test-drove), but I think there were some even worse-looking designs in that decade, style-wise. The 1979-80 Cadillac Seville, for example, looked like it was backed into a wall at 30 MPH, and the 1978 Olds/Buick mid-sized sedans were almost as awkward-looking. The Seville of that era also had the disgusting 100 HP 5.7L V8 diesel piece of crap under the hood that was a hastily-converted gasoline V8. I don't have to expound on that engine....history has already done it. Later models used the variable-displacement V8/6/4 gas engine, which was almost as much of a disaster as the diesel.

Aron9000

For me the height of automotive styling was 1960 to 1972. The Bill Mitchell era at GM gave us some really great shapes like the 61-64 Cadillacs, 1964 Riveria, 1966 Toronado, 1967 Eldorado, 1967-69 Camaro, 1969 GTO, 1968 Chevy truck, 1967 Chevelle, 1967 Buick Wildcat, pick your favorite year 1960's Impala, etc, etc, etc

mmarshall

Many would claim that the best looking car of the 1960s, from a pure styling point of view, was the 1Gen 1964-66 Ford Mustang. It also set a then-automotive record for first-year sales.

Unfortunately, IMO, it was not built particularly well, lacked refinement, and, under the skin, was simply a nice-looking body and interior on a Ho-Hum Ford Falcon chassis.

Fizzboy7

I'd say the present is the best of times. Each year brings more innovation, more improvements, more efficiency, more safety, and more of everything else. It's on-going progress that I appreciate and savor.

If I had to give an important time in auto history, I'd credit 1989-1991. Here we had an updated Acura Legend sedan and Coupe and the all-new, game-changing Lexus LS. I think these two cars created a paradigm shift of how luxury cars were built and sold. The forthcoming Acura NSX also did the same for sports cars. And how can we forget what the four-door Chevy S-10 Blazer, Ford Explorer, and Jeep Cherokee did in replacing the long-running family station wagon and conversion vans? Certainly the late 80's and early 90's ushered in a lot of new buying trends.

As far as past favorites, I think many of us would admit to liking what we first started driving back in the day. That would throw me into GM offerings of the mid-80's, as rough as those were. I still have fond memories and thought they were great at the time. At least one good thing about simple cars back then is you could usually fix things on your own or at least find a corner mechanic that could. Today, with all the tech and computers built in, dealer service and the accompanying costs are almost unavoidable. At least with Lexus, it's a treat to take your car in.

RXSF

People of the older generation are always going to look back and say that's the designs of when they grew up were best. No offense.

I would have to say the height of design and engineering is now and will always be present day

mmarshall

No...not necessarily. I'd have to at least partially disagree with that...and I'm part of the older generation myself. The question in the OP concerned not necessarily what what opined as the best design, but the best automotive advancements as well. For instance, I grew up and learned to drive in the 1960s, but, outside of the 1966 FWD Olds Toronado/Cadillac Eldorado, little if any REAL advancement came out of that decade. The Beetle-like, rear-engined air-cooled Chevy Corvair turned out to be a disaster in several ways. The muscle cars back then that many today still worship were mostly just run-of-the-mill sedans, coupes, and pony cars with larger engines....and sometimes body-graphics. The immortal 1Gen Mustang (which I covered in the above post) was a Ho-Hum Falcon compact with a hugely popular body and interior. Some safety improvements, which were driven by Ralph Nader and Federal legislation, took effect by the end of the decade. But, like it or not, widespread use of REAL advancements like disc bakes, electronic ignition, fuel-injection, radial tires, clearcoat paint, car-based AWD, rack-and-pinion steering, catalytic converters, unleaded gas, integrated climate-control systems, electric window defrosters, and many others did not really take effect until the 1970s or later decades. I, for one, am still angry today, that we had to put up with balky and unreliable carburetors until the late 1980s (cold starts and warm-ups could be a true PITA), when the technology (and the means) were there to replace them with fuel-injection some 10-15 years earlier, and most of the auto industry didn't.

Toys4RJill

I think styling is to each their own bit to me todays cars a pretty good looking. But they fit into the modern contemporary landscape just like a car in the 1970s would.

Today's cars are the best engineered and most reliable. However, todays cars seem to be more competitive than ever.

I think luxury cars from the 70s and 80s were more luxurious that today.

mmarshall

Agreed. With the possible exceptions of today's Lexus LS460, Kia K900, and Mercedes S550, traditional luxury cars from 30-40 years ago certainly rode smoother than today. Back then, with tall-profile tires, Cream-of-Wheat suspensions/shocks, and soft bushings, the emphasis was on ride comfort......particularly over bumps. While not all of today's luxury cars have a super-firm ride (Kia and Hyundai luxury models seem to have the most exceptions), the emphasis, today, in most cases, is clearly on handling rather than ride comfort. Another difference is that, back then, "luxury" grade seats usually meant either leather or a fuzzy, pillow-soft velour, sometimes pleated. Today, leather, or, in some cases, an excellent leather substitute like the Lexus NuLuxe, is what you will find in most upmarket interiors.....the velour seats are long gone. (I happened to like the velour myself, and miss them)

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

agree with all.

depends on how you define 'luxurious'. those cars did tend to have more room in them and cushy comfortable 'armchair' like seats and floaty boat rides (with corresponding horrible body roll and wallowing).

Aron9000

^ I too miss the velour seats, especially because you could order your interior in any strange hue or pattern you wanted. Plaid orange golf pant upholstery to match the orange paint on your Coupe Deville, you bet we offer it




Or if you prefer the decor of your local bordello:




That's what I miss about older luxury cars, you could get about any paint/interior/option combo your heart desired. Now days your Benz is either Black, Grey, or White