2016 Cadillac ELR
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Sulu
Driving 30 miles on cheap electricity is 30 less miles you have to drive on expensive gasoline. Every extra mile you can drive on electricity alone helps your mpg ratings (forgetting about the confusing Miles per gallon-equivalent rating). For the same power you need, electricity is cheaper than gasoline.
If I have to drive more than 30+ miles, yes, the gasoline engine does turn on to recharge the battery, but as I said above, every mile less I have to use the gasoline engine saves me money. And I do not have to worry about driving 60 miles in a Nissan Leaf and running out of electricity before I get home to charge overnight (no range anxiety in the ELR or Volt).
I drive the ES Hybrid and while I cannot drive very far on electricity alone, I get better fuel economy on the much larger and heavier ES than I did on my Corolla.
If I have to drive more than 30+ miles, yes, the gasoline engine does turn on to recharge the battery, but as I said above, every mile less I have to use the gasoline engine saves me money. And I do not have to worry about driving 60 miles in a Nissan Leaf and running out of electricity before I get home to charge overnight (no range anxiety in the ELR or Volt).
I drive the ES Hybrid and while I cannot drive very far on electricity alone, I get better fuel economy on the much larger and heavier ES than I did on my Corolla.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-16-15 at 02:23 PM.
#17
I have a question, though....(and this is an issue that you might know more about than I do, so I'd like your insight). If you constantly run an extended-range hybrid less than the (typical) 40 miles it takes to drain the battery, and plug it in each hight to recharge it, seems like the gas engine would rarely if ever actually turn on. That would, of course, mean that the gas engine's moving parts wouldn't get lubricated, the oil wouldn't get hot, seals and gaskets would dry out and crack; the coolant would deteriorate from lack of circulation, etc..... Doesn't the gas engine HAVE to be programmed to start and run a certain minimum amount of time just to keep it and its fluids from deteriorating, even if it is not actually needed for battery-recharge or more power?
#18
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
The ELR, like the Volt, is a plug-in hybrid. Plug it in overnight to recharge the battery, and with a full battery, you can drive 30+ miles / 50+ km on electricity alone (compared to no more than a very few miles on a normal hybrid vehicle).
Driving 30 miles on cheap electricity is 30 less miles you have to drive on expensive gasoline. Every extra mile you can drive on electricity alone helps your mpg ratings (forgetting about the confusing Miles per gallon-equivalent rating). For the same power you need, electricity is cheaper than gasoline.
Driving 30 miles on cheap electricity is 30 less miles you have to drive on expensive gasoline. Every extra mile you can drive on electricity alone helps your mpg ratings (forgetting about the confusing Miles per gallon-equivalent rating). For the same power you need, electricity is cheaper than gasoline.
might as well spend some more and get a tesla which has real range.
#19
Lexus Champion
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by pbm317
Volt/ELR and any of the other Range Extended EV's do kick on their gasoline engines every now and then, especially since fuel also goes bad as well.
#21
Lexus Champion
And it seems that we have had this discussion before... While a hybrid car is more expensive than a conventional car, and it may take a long time to pay off the higher price, we hybrid drivers do not necessarily look at it in a strictly dollars-and-cents fashion. We like the fact that we are using less gasoline. The one-time higher purchase price does not enter into the picture when we have to fill close to a full tank each week, while watching gas prices rise; only having to fill a half-tank in a Hybrid gives us some comfort.
It is as much psychological as anything.
My wife was so impressed by the low fuel consumption of the ES Hybrid that she is talking about trading in her 2013 Honda Accord for an electric car (but only if it looks nice, she said, instantly crossing off the Leaf and the Volt). (She commutes about 60km / <40mi roundtrip to work.) Soon, we may be a 2-Lexus Hybrid family.
Even at $3 a gallon for gasoline, it is still cheaper to drive a car on electricity than gasoline.
Last edited by Sulu; 04-16-15 at 08:49 PM.
#22
Lexus Champion
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ars-says-study
#23
Lexus Test Driver
The other thing about these new hybrids like the ES and Accord Hybrid is that they also have decent performance. 0-60 times are in warm hatch territory but low and midrange torque is fantastic. There's no lag either like with smaller petrol or diesel turbos. You can potter about in town getting 50 mpg and you can also blast past most cars at lower speeds... The cake can be had and eaten too
That said, the ELR is overpriced and like the Volt, it's an utter failure on GM's part. Toyota is smart by using hybrid tech with small battery packs at the low end of the price range, and Tesla is smart by first making premium electric cars. It's only when battery costs drop that affordable plugin hybrids and electric cars will show up. At that point, we could see hybrids with big battery packs and tiny range-extender engines.
That said, the ELR is overpriced and like the Volt, it's an utter failure on GM's part. Toyota is smart by using hybrid tech with small battery packs at the low end of the price range, and Tesla is smart by first making premium electric cars. It's only when battery costs drop that affordable plugin hybrids and electric cars will show up. At that point, we could see hybrids with big battery packs and tiny range-extender engines.
#24
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Of the 106,681 survey participants who drove to work every day in a car, 95 percent of them traveled less than 40 miles to work, with the average commute distance being 13.6 miles
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ars-says-study
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ars-says-study
either way, knock yourself out and get an ELR.
seems the buying public agrees with me.
#26
Lexus Fanatic
Though not a perfect comparison, the ELR, in several ways, is more so a 2015 equivalent of the ill-fated 1980s Cadllac Cimarron than to the Allante.
#27
Also, I was actually mistaken in my original comment and was confusing the Allante with the Buick Reatta, which was another huge sales flop.
#28
The ES Hybrid, in fact, can be had for less than Cdn$50,000 (and remember that the Canadian dollar is worth less than the American dollar). Gasoline here is much more expensive than in the USA. I cannot afford a Tesla.
And it seems that we have had this discussion before... While a hybrid car is more expensive than a conventional car, and it may take a long time to pay off the higher price, we hybrid drivers do not necessarily look at it in a strictly dollars-and-cents fashion. We like the fact that we are using less gasoline. The one-time higher purchase price does not enter into the picture when we have to fill close to a full tank each week, while watching gas prices rise; only having to fill a half-tank in a Hybrid gives us some comfort.
It is as much psychological as anything.
My wife was so impressed by the low fuel consumption of the ES Hybrid that she is talking about trading in her 2013 Honda Accord for an electric car (but only if it looks nice, she said, instantly crossing off the Leaf and the Volt). (She commutes about 60km / <40mi roundtrip to work.) Soon, we may be a 2-Lexus Hybrid family.
Even at $3 a gallon for gasoline, it is still cheaper to drive a car on electricity than gasoline.
And it seems that we have had this discussion before... While a hybrid car is more expensive than a conventional car, and it may take a long time to pay off the higher price, we hybrid drivers do not necessarily look at it in a strictly dollars-and-cents fashion. We like the fact that we are using less gasoline. The one-time higher purchase price does not enter into the picture when we have to fill close to a full tank each week, while watching gas prices rise; only having to fill a half-tank in a Hybrid gives us some comfort.
It is as much psychological as anything.
My wife was so impressed by the low fuel consumption of the ES Hybrid that she is talking about trading in her 2013 Honda Accord for an electric car (but only if it looks nice, she said, instantly crossing off the Leaf and the Volt). (She commutes about 60km / <40mi roundtrip to work.) Soon, we may be a 2-Lexus Hybrid family.
Even at $3 a gallon for gasoline, it is still cheaper to drive a car on electricity than gasoline.
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Well, if my Google skills served me correctly, the Cimarron sold approx. 84k units and the Allante sold approx. 21k units. I do realize the Allante was a more expensive car, so perhaps more profit was made there. Anyway, neither one was a huge sales success by any measure.
Also, I was actually mistaken in my original comment and was confusing the Allante with the Buick Reatta, which was another huge sales flop.
#30
Super Moderator
Of the 106,681 survey participants who drove to work every day in a car, 95 percent of them traveled less than 40 miles to work, with the average commute distance being 13.6 miles
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ars-says-study
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ars-says-study
For example: my commute one way is 22.3 miles if I go the shortest route on surface streets, or 31.1 miles if I take the expressway. I fall easily into the 95% cited in the article. Yet 40 miles of range is clearly inadequate for even a direct commute with no stops.
Now I'm aware the Volt/ELR have a small "range extender" engine, and I wouldn't be stranded. But the raison d'etre of these cars is to be able to drive in EV mode most of the time, and only use the engine on less frequent, longer drives. If I can't get home without running the engine, I may as well have a traditional or plug-in hybrid.