Mr Bond

Wasn´t the RC-F meant to be a cab models as well ,and thats one reason for using the previous gen IS C chassi to make it stiffer ? Besides that, is the chassi really the main reason for its weight, a turbo charged 3-3,5 V6 and a DSG instead of this V8 and traditional gearbox would probably do a lot !

rominl

iTrader: (4)

the previous e93 m3 was also based on the same 3 series chassis, but with a lot more reinforcement making it heavier (i think it was like 4000lb vs 3700lb). i don't see any reason to penalize the whole lineup (regular coupe) for the convertible (which will sell far less)

for weird, here's e92 335 vs m3 again as example
e92 335 - 3571lb
e92 m3 - 3704lb

then on the RC vs IS
is350 - 3593lb
rc350 - 3748lb
rcf - 3958lb

so we can see that fundamentally the rc is 150lb heavier than is and i can only put that on the chassis. you have a point that the v8 adds more weight, but imho there are pros and cons (i am not a huge fan of the tti6)

doge

Na V8's are usually better than fi we can agree on that, however this is not the case. This motor was good a decade ago, but it wasn't great it fell short in comparison to the c63 and the screamer of a motor in the M3. N/a v8's are great because they have torque on demand and they are usually better off the line that laggy turbo motors, however in this comparison its the opposite! What does that say?

Lexus's different approach is one akin to the old gm, their approach was to use whats available. There is almost no new hardware on this car at all.

Your saying that Clarkson and Harris's words are cry for attention and they only highlight the worst, the fact this topic has been addressed on this forum multiple on occasions disproves that. Look at how many disappointed enthusiasts are crying foul. Is it normal for successful cars to be criticized by people loyal to the brand?

Gojirra99

the Franken chassis is a disappointment no doubt because of the added weight, but top gear themselves said it's an empty victory after declaring the M4 as their "winner" at the end, all you need is reread their own words.
Sure there are some disappointments, including for me, but the fact is the RCF is never nearly as bad as some trying to paint it as, and is in fact very competitive compared to the M4, despite some of the disappointing shortcomings, the detailed reviews posted from all sources proved that. Even the "outdated" V8 is still getting praises in some reviews.

most crying foul I saw are either trolls from other brand's fan boy owners, and ISF owners trolling the new RC F , to justify their continuous ownership of the ISF. There are always no lack of previous generation lexus models owners dissing the new generation when they came out as I remember it,. This is not limited to Lexus forums, as there are many C6 corvettes owners dissing the C7 in corvette forums too for example ......

cino

iTrader: (1)

Yup, anyone who doesn't RC-F is a troll. I see the justification as well.

Gojirra99

Nope, not anyone, but you can definitely tell from their posts themselves .

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

Im glad they used the frankenchassis so it can look like a real coupe, not a sedan with 2 doors chopped off that would give it awkward proportions. Big GS hood, short 2IS wheelbase, 3IS short rear deck = coupe proportions. It looks like its own car as a result, not an IS with 2 doors chopped off. E92 and F82 coupes never look as good as their sedan versions because its a coupe based off a sedan. Yaguchi said he wanted the GS front to fit the V8 better and to have wider tires. You cannot fit 255s in the standard IS front. Yea a V8 fit in the 2IS after the front end had to be extended by 3 inches to move the radiator up. IS chassis is not designed for a V8. Frankenchassis accomplishes 2 major things - giving it true coupe proportions and making the base chassis have the technical requirements to create the F variant from the beginning. Unlike the 2IS chassis which to create the ISF was put together from what they had. If you want to complain about Lexus using frankenchassis what about other companies using sedan bodies to make a coupe. Lexus actually succeeded in making this car have its own unique look and identity despite using existing parts. Much better job than other companies.

Rigidity isnt BS, the RCF chassis is 50% stiffer than the 4GS chassis which the 3IS is based off of. The same chassis that beat the 5 series and 3 series in some tests, and the RCF is another 50% stiffer on top of this. I drove both RCs and the chassis is definately even stiffer than the 3IS which was already a huge leap up over the 2IS chassis.

czar07

Yes it is competitive enough, but still not good enough. That is the unfortunate truth. Can you imagine how a 200lb lighter RC-F would have affected the Lexus brand?

Being a competitor is not good enough anymore. If they want to sell cars worldwide like MB and BMW do they need to kill the competition, not just match it.

That all being said, I would still choose the RC-F over an M4. Its better looking, has a better interior and is rarer than 3/4 series BMWs. It also doesnt look like an IS350 which is a plus.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

then there must be a reason why the 3is doesn't have the new isf? the only reason is the v8 doesn't even fit in correctly. if that's not a bad chassis design job i don't know what is. and associating weight to body rigidity can't be any further from the truth, they don't equate each other.

what's the definition of coupe proportion? i think personal subjective feeling is more like it. i respect you for not liking bmw but i think a lot of people do like the bmw coupe look (i think they sell so many coupe for more reasons than just the brand). i like the e92 proportion just fine. and just in case, i like the 1sc style too. rc? it looks bulky to me BUT i don't dislike the look.

the excuse of not able to fit 255 in the 3is front is quite confusing to me. what is keeping them from having a wider fender, which manufacturers do all the time? i believe even the isf had it. having the gs front to fit the v8 yes that's the reason. but wider tires, they don't necessarily have to go with a freaking different front chassis to achieve that.

i don't discredit lexus on making the rc look different, imho great for them. i like it. but at what cost? weight? i am unsure about that. i never said the other companies using sedan for coupe is a good thing either. i always think the c class coupe looks weird, so that shows i am not biased against any brand.

i criticize things as they are and i don't start looking for excuses when it's lexus.

Gojirra99

They managed to fit a V8 in the last ISF with a bulging hood, and should have learnt from that experience, but the 3IS can't fit the V8 in even with a bulging hood this time to make a new ISF ??? That's the puzzling part

doge

I think it's a length issue not a height issue.

It could also be a width issue. It's really all just speculation and it really doesn't do us any good to guess.

KevinGS

And that bulging hood is why I don't have an ISF, and why I can't seem to be able to pull the trigger on the RC F.

There just has to be a better design strategy to get that V8 into a smaller Lexus.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

blame euro pedestrian crash test standards that require a 3" gap between hood and the engine. Thats why cars nowdays have this blunt and bloated look. The RCF front is a lot less bloated looking than the ISF front because the GS front is longer. Another reason manufacturers are pressured to go with turbocharging other than mpg and emissions, the V8s interfere with the styling of todays cars because of pedestrian crash standards.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i think the 3is was intentionally designed for no v8, but maybe they intend to add a turbo 6 or something at some point to make a new is-f.

TsunamiF

I'm sorry but the marketing of rigidity by auto manufacturers is BS. Modern chassis are already stiff enough for street and track use when using street tires. Suspension tuning plays a much factor with how the car handles.

If the 3IS chassis is such a huge leap over the 2IS chassis, why does the lesser 2011 2IS IS250 F-Sport easily outhandle the 2014 3IS IS250 F-Sport (as an example)?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rt_first_test/

The RC-F's stiffer chassis doesn't help it from being a heavily-understeering coupe