LordBowral

I am the biggest Lexus fan ...but I have to agree with him on his comments about the RCF . I drove one and thought it was just very ordinary and did nothing amazing. Its too heavy and just has no excitement factor .It doesn't even sound very good . I got back into my LS at the dealership and thought how much nicer it was to drive in everyday traffic ( and yes I did get stuck into the RCF )

airchomper

The issue is that Lexus is branding these cars different.

BMW's M(otorsport), Mercedes' AMG, and Audi's (R)S signify high performance models. And usually, they signify world class models.

The M5/E63 AMG/S6 all possess roughly the same performance.

So what's the GS-F?

Every car journalist thinks its the Japanese remix of the German performance sub-brands. But it's not.

M5 - $93k
E63 AMG - $98k
RS6 - >$100k, but not available in the US this generation

The GS-F is a $70k car. For you accountants, that's about the price of a loaded 335i, (not an M3), a well-optioned 535i, or a sport packaged 550i.

Really, the GS-F is more like a V8/Sport Package midsize luxury sedan than a racecar for the road (a la M5). It's priced like a midsize luxury sedan with a V8, and it has pretty sporty suspension that isn't punishing.

On its merits the GS-F deserves consideration as a fast road road. But if you're buying a race car for the street, go get a Porsche GT3 since that's the only racecar for the road available.

And journalists need to get off their high horsepower horse. 300 horsepower is enough for any car. You can't drive a 300 horsepower car for more than 20 seconds without reaching jailable speeding offenses. And even in a world with hellcats and p85Ds and z06 corvettes, motorcycles accelerate way harder for much less money, go get your jollies there and get a car that's reliable and easy to live with unless you want to burn money keeping it on the road or keeping a new one in your garage.


In which case, more power to you. but don't pan the Lexus because it doesn't inspire you to spend a ton of money. Just appreciate it as an extraordinarily solid car for people who don't own the car in the warranty period.

Pyramid

If this is the same Chris Harris "the bartender" on 6th street. He doesn't know squat about Lexus.

TangoRed

You just outlined the problem. The "F" brand is inconsistent. Sure the GS-F is cheaper than the E63/M5, but the RC-F has a base price that's right in line with the C63 and M4. So it's a 'tweener in one class and a head on competitor in another? What's going on here?

Not sure where you're going with this. The GT3 isn't the only "street legal race car" and the GS-F is considered a fast road car. The E63 and M5 are just faster ones.

If this is the case, why are you even posting in this thread about the GS-F?

That's great and all but people don't typically look at cars in a vacuum.

rxonmymind

I think he was in the ball park. A little over third base bit certainly not out in left field. Fact is I think Lexus has split the hair a little to fine and needs to thin the heard a little and consolidate their line up. As far as making ANY 4000+ lb car a "sports" car that's a non starter for me. More like a heavy weight cruiser with decent acceleration and light spirited cornering is about all you'll be capable of in this car.
Attempting to bang this car around mountain roads will get you into a lot of trouble. One can't avoid physics of 4000#. That's two cows your trying to steer.
Anyway, nothing in the Lexus lineup would have me choosing it as a competition track or auto cross car. That can be said of many auto companies.

evident

Dont think that the RC-F is superior at all. Especially compared with the IS and GS where they get raving reviews when they came out, the RC seems a bit of a disappointment. and soon with the GS-F as well. I agree with him on most points but still think he's being a little harsh.

xioix

He's being harsh because Lexus is the A student that just brought home a C

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

or Lexus being the Asian student should have parents that know better.

doge

Exactly! Lexus does lots of things very well and its held to a very high standard, so if Lexus creates an inferior product it's a surprise to everyone hence the sharp criticism. I

Gojirra99

The RC F is a cost compromise with it's franken-chassis as unlike the Germans, they do not have a huge home/Euro market selling lots of low end 4 series coupes/convertibles to spread the cost of developing a dedicated chassis for the RC, even in the US, the 4 series have had a much larger volume base, and coupe/convertibles are much lower volume compared to sedans as well. My guess is for lexus to make it profitable and keep the price low enough, they have to resort to killing 2 birds with one stone strategy, but resulted in a weight compromised coupe.

By the way, if the RC F is a C grade car, then the M4 is at most a C+, since the RC F still performs quite close to it on the track and is considered a better road car than the M4 by most reviewers. The M4 is not favored by many reviewers compared to the previous equivalent M3 coupes.

darbs242

iTrader: (5)

The newest F cars are a huge disappointment. If Lexus wants to make a splash in the performance segment they have to compete with the AMG, RS and M brands. And they simply are not. Over weight and under powered is not going to win just because it reliable. I love my ISF, it is a great car. I would have bought and RCF if it was truly better than the new M3. It just isnt. Mr. Harris is not the only one who has poorly reviewed the RCF and the new GSF is competition for a M5 or E63 from 6-8 years ago. Im no lexus hater but I really have no idea who lexus wants to buy these cars. They say there making sports cars anyone can drive, the people who buy sports cars are not just anyone, they are show boaters and track people.

doge

Why doesn't lexus offer low end versions of the rc to help offset the development costs? That looks like a boneheaded move, or maybe they know they can't compete? If your going to sacrifice quality and innovation for profits than why bother at all? The Germans manage to do both just fine.
I like how you omitted the weight difference, the decade old tech, and the staggering half second difference between the rc and the m4. Factor those in and its a full letter grade difference.

Gojirra99

How did I dismissed the weight differnce, that's the first thing I try to analyse & mentioned ?
the 0-60 speed is due to the turbo charger low end torque being the difference, but the RC is a better road car, plus the top track speed of the M4 is not consistently achievable even by the testers, whereas the RC F's are just slightly slower and are consistently repeatable. You need a professional driver to get the best out of the M4, and they can't even do that everytime, that's the main factor behind these results, and I think that's the purpose of the Lexus engineers, a different approach, not every sports coupe has to have the exact character as the M4, otherwise why have alternative choices ? So yes, I maintain if RC F is a C car, the M4 is at most a C+ ...

And if you look at top gear's printed verdict, it's undoubtedly a very "forced" verdict : 363 to 2, the RC F is a better car they said, but the M4 still wins. And this sentiment is reflected in many other reviews as well (if you read/watch all of them in the review thread in the RC F forum). But Jeremy Clarkson's antics in dissing the RC F in the TV program and Chris Harris comments here are just getting most of the attention ...

Infra

iTrader: (1)

Right. So it should have been called a GS500. The topic of this thread is, what is the game plan for the Lexus F brand?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

if lexus had better vision and developed the IS chassis correctly, they could have used it for RC and thus making new ISF and RCF with a much better cost basis.

the fact that they had to go through all the trouble to make a whole new LEGO RC chassis tells you something. if anyone thinks it's rigidity then i think it's bs coz' we all know that the IS has a very good chassis already. i will just let people think, but just think why the IS doesn't have a ISF variant anymore, and why they had to make a LEGO RC chassis so they can put the v8 in.

if today bmw accidentally makes a 3 series chassis and crap they can't fit the engine or make a 4 series work, it will be very costly for them to "create" another chassis for 4 series too.

so that shows how important it is to have the chassis right from the start