Chris Harris:What The F Is A Lexus Performance Car?
04-14-15, 11:47 PM
#46
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Fully understand the Lexus fanboy-ism, but he hit the nail on the head IMO. The argument for Lexus going for "GT" and "comfortable" cars is nice and dandy, except Chris Harris is specifically talking about the F performance line, not the RX or ES. Some of you forget that the IS-F was never "soft", it was never described as a "GT", and in fact it was the most rough around the edges and rode hard as a rock compared to E90/W204, because Lexus was willing to embrace the performance end of the spectrum (To a fault). Now suddenly they are riding the legacy of the ISF and LFA but coming up with a GT cruiser? And a GS-F that's more like an F-Sport+?
IMHO, the answer to Chris Harris' question is that Lexus is willing to sacrifice the enthusiasts who have embraced the F-line in order to shift focus and make more sales in the F-Sport line, which they have done so very successfully. The LFA is not wasted because the average joe still knows it exists and somehow relates it to his IS250 F-Sport and thinks there is some pedigree retained. It doesn't matter what the truth is... the question is how long can Lexus ride this out until it's meaningless.
It's also blatantly ignorant to claim that the RC-F and M4 does not compete in the same segment when a.) Lexus put out their own marketing stunt against the M4 on a track with a paid driver, and b.) Lexus did the press launch for the RC-F ON A TRACK.
IMHO, the answer to Chris Harris' question is that Lexus is willing to sacrifice the enthusiasts who have embraced the F-line in order to shift focus and make more sales in the F-Sport line, which they have done so very successfully. The LFA is not wasted because the average joe still knows it exists and somehow relates it to his IS250 F-Sport and thinks there is some pedigree retained. It doesn't matter what the truth is... the question is how long can Lexus ride this out until it's meaningless.
It's also blatantly ignorant to claim that the RC-F and M4 does not compete in the same segment when a.) Lexus put out their own marketing stunt against the M4 on a track with a paid driver, and b.) Lexus did the press launch for the RC-F ON A TRACK.
04-15-15, 02:02 AM
#47
Lexus Champion
Chris Harris has a point.
Now we can all agree or disagree.....but that is his opinion and we all have to respect that.
Now my personal opinions:
1) ISF - check
2) LFA - check
3) RCF - check
4) GSF - you see here's the thing
I'm glad that Lexus is making a V8 engine for the 4GS. Superb news indeed.
That being said, many people (both here in CL and outside) were looking forward to a Lexus that would match the M5/E63. Unfortunately the final result was a bit less stellar.
You have the exact 467 HP engine from the RCF in a car that is slightly heavier than the RCF.
The only saving grace is that it will be priced within S6/550i/E550 territory.....to reflect the power output bracket that it is in.
That being said, to any future GSF owner: Don't expect that you can beat your neighbors's Jaguar XF-R anytime soon.
Now we can all agree or disagree.....but that is his opinion and we all have to respect that.
Now my personal opinions:
1) ISF - check
2) LFA - check
3) RCF - check
4) GSF - you see here's the thing
I'm glad that Lexus is making a V8 engine for the 4GS. Superb news indeed.
That being said, many people (both here in CL and outside) were looking forward to a Lexus that would match the M5/E63. Unfortunately the final result was a bit less stellar.
You have the exact 467 HP engine from the RCF in a car that is slightly heavier than the RCF.
The only saving grace is that it will be priced within S6/550i/E550 territory.....to reflect the power output bracket that it is in.
That being said, to any future GSF owner: Don't expect that you can beat your neighbors's Jaguar XF-R anytime soon.
04-15-15, 09:49 AM
#49
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04-15-15, 10:11 AM
#50
Chris Harris has a point.
Now we can all agree or disagree.....but that is his opinion and we all have to respect that.
Now my personal opinions:
1) ISF - check
2) LFA - check
3) RCF - check
4) GSF - you see here's the thing
I'm glad that Lexus is making a V8 engine for the 4GS. Superb news indeed.
That being said, many people (both here in CL and outside) were looking forward to a Lexus that would match the M5/E63. Unfortunately the final result was a bit less stellar.
You have the exact 467 HP engine from the RCF in a car that is slightly heavier than the RCF.
The only saving grace is that it will be priced within S6/550i/E550 territory.....to reflect the power output bracket that it is in.
That being said, to any future GSF owner: Don't expect that you can beat your neighbors's Jaguar XF-R anytime soon.
Now we can all agree or disagree.....but that is his opinion and we all have to respect that.
Now my personal opinions:
1) ISF - check
2) LFA - check
3) RCF - check
4) GSF - you see here's the thing
I'm glad that Lexus is making a V8 engine for the 4GS. Superb news indeed.
That being said, many people (both here in CL and outside) were looking forward to a Lexus that would match the M5/E63. Unfortunately the final result was a bit less stellar.
You have the exact 467 HP engine from the RCF in a car that is slightly heavier than the RCF.
The only saving grace is that it will be priced within S6/550i/E550 territory.....to reflect the power output bracket that it is in.
That being said, to any future GSF owner: Don't expect that you can beat your neighbors's Jaguar XF-R anytime soon.
IS-F: Good start, love it
LF-A: I get it, it was a statement car to show what Lexus was capable of; apparently alot.
RC-F: Nice car, but common with 7yrs after the debut of the IS-F there should be a little more than a 50hp gain..
GS-F: well Lexus, i was pretty stoked for this cars release, it was a dream of mine long before you even announced it; that one day you would bring this car to the market as powerful icon and landmark in Lexus history. But it was pretty disappointing. To wear the F badge, i was expecting it to be like a punch in the face; a brute force, raw powered, BEAST with ooohhh i dont know something like the RC-F engine, but maybe SUPERCHARGED?! orrrr at least a normally aspirated high performance version of that 5.7L you have laying around?! I mean i was expecting it to compete with the M5, that car is a true monster in the market. This was your chance lexus, and i think you disappointed me and many other current and future lexus buyers and enthusiasts with this one. But still I will stick around as a loyal Lexus/Toyota fan, in hopes that you will continue to advance and maybe with more time, bring us the car we have all been waiting for..
Seeing this performance surge and direction in the market these days, i thought it was a step forward for lexus/toyota as the #1 automobile company in the world, to take a step into high performance luxury cars, we all expect alot from the #1...
On a side note.... Infiniti and Hyundai are on rise for performance luxury as well. Watch out Lexus... that 5.0 Genesis is looking pretty good over there a far less expensive than your GS-F, and dont even get me started about the Q50 Eau Rouge... if thats even close to what infiniti says theyre trying to do with it.... that car will single handedly blow the F branch out of the water sky-high.... IF it is what they say it is.... THAT is a true japanese M5/E63 competitor, but we'll see what happens
Wait....Where's Honda in the midst of this? LMAO
04-15-15, 10:25 AM
#51
Lead Lap
excellent article. dead on. 
truth hurts.
isf - good skunkworks effort turned production car, improved each year nicely
lfa - brilliant gob smacker but very rare except auto shows
rcf - not that special
gsf - well it looks good
?
f-sport has been ruined with cars like ct f-sport and rx f-sport which are pretty much just trim bits only.
lexus will get it together, but it's taken far too long.
truth hurts.isf - good skunkworks effort turned production car, improved each year nicely
lfa - brilliant gob smacker but very rare except auto shows
rcf - not that special
gsf - well it looks good
?
f-sport has been ruined with cars like ct f-sport and rx f-sport which are pretty much just trim bits only.
lexus will get it together, but it's taken far too long.
04-15-15, 10:30 AM
#52
Fully understand the Lexus fanboy-ism, but he hit the nail on the head IMO. The argument for Lexus going for "GT" and "comfortable" cars is nice and dandy, except Chris Harris is specifically talking about the F performance line, not the RX or ES. Some of you forget that the IS-F was never "soft", it was never described as a "GT", and in fact it was the most rough around the edges and rode hard as a rock compared to E90/W204, because Lexus was willing to embrace the performance end of the spectrum (To a fault). Now suddenly they are riding the legacy of the ISF and LFA but coming up with a GT cruiser? And a GS-F that's more like an F-Sport+?
IMHO, the answer to Chris Harris' question is that Lexus is willing to sacrifice the enthusiasts who have embraced the F-line in order to shift focus and make more sales in the F-Sport line, which they have done so very successfully. The LFA is not wasted because the average joe still knows it exists and somehow relates it to his IS250 F-Sport and thinks there is some pedigree retained. It doesn't matter what the truth is... the question is how long can Lexus ride this out until it's meaningless.
It's also blatantly ignorant to claim that the RC-F and M4 does not compete in the same segment when a.) Lexus put out their own marketing stunt against the M4 on a track with a paid driver, and b.) Lexus did the press launch for the RC-F ON A TRACK.
IMHO, the answer to Chris Harris' question is that Lexus is willing to sacrifice the enthusiasts who have embraced the F-line in order to shift focus and make more sales in the F-Sport line, which they have done so very successfully. The LFA is not wasted because the average joe still knows it exists and somehow relates it to his IS250 F-Sport and thinks there is some pedigree retained. It doesn't matter what the truth is... the question is how long can Lexus ride this out until it's meaningless.
It's also blatantly ignorant to claim that the RC-F and M4 does not compete in the same segment when a.) Lexus put out their own marketing stunt against the M4 on a track with a paid driver, and b.) Lexus did the press launch for the RC-F ON A TRACK.
Hahaha interesting points you have there, to the average joe, F sports are a pretty cool and hip thing "its like an amg package" least thats how i see it. Adds little to no performance to the car, just adds +30hp cause that rear diffuser and F sport paddle shifting "manual" transmission right? LMAO, to the average joe thats exactly what it means....sadly the market for performance nuts and gear heads is extremely limited... and so i guess Toyota/Lexus does not see a profit in spending immense amounts in the RD department to please this small crowd. the "F-Sport" will suffice -_- looks cool and all, but nothing fancy.
And yes the RC-F most definitely competes against with M4 and c63 coupe on the track. But again to the "average joe" i think all that matters is "how many horse powers it has" yes horse powerS. Only gear heads and real enthusiasts understand that power isnt everything, thats but a fraction of the big picture, but its difficult to explain that to the common people who dont want to take the time to understand... gotta understand that at least 75% of the people who buy these cars only want to go fast from 0-60 when the light turns green haha, theyre never going to track it or corner with it on the public streets. Shame...its a waste of engineering genius but hey its the truth lol (in my humble opinion of course)
04-15-15, 10:38 AM
#53
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Hahaha interesting points you have there, to the average joe, F sports are a pretty cool and hip thing "its like an amg package" least thats how i see it. Adds little to no performance to the car, just adds +30hp cause that rear diffuser and F sport paddle shifting "manual" transmission right? LMAO, to the average joe thats exactly what it means....sadly the market for performance nuts and gear heads is extremely limited... and so i guess Toyota/Lexus does not see a profit in spending immense amounts in the RD department to please this small crowd. the "F-Sport" will suffice -_- looks cool and all, but nothing fancy.
And yes the RC-F most definitely competes against with M4 and c63 coupe on the track. But again to the "average joe" i think all that matters is "how many horse powers it has" yes horse powerS. Only gear heads and real enthusiasts understand that power isnt everything, thats but a fraction of the big picture, but its difficult to explain that to the common people who dont want to take the time to understand... gotta understand that at least 75% of the people who buy these cars only want to go fast from 0-60 when the light turns green haha, theyre never going to track it or corner with it on the public streets. Shame...its a waste of engineering genius but hey its the truth lol (in my humble opinion of course)
And yes the RC-F most definitely competes against with M4 and c63 coupe on the track. But again to the "average joe" i think all that matters is "how many horse powers it has" yes horse powerS. Only gear heads and real enthusiasts understand that power isnt everything, thats but a fraction of the big picture, but its difficult to explain that to the common people who dont want to take the time to understand... gotta understand that at least 75% of the people who buy these cars only want to go fast from 0-60 when the light turns green haha, theyre never going to track it or corner with it on the public streets. Shame...its a waste of engineering genius but hey its the truth lol (in my humble opinion of course)
04-15-15, 12:22 PM
#54
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Well said Blackraven, over the past 5-7years its been real exciting watching lexus grow as a brand and venture into a market where Europeans have dominated for what seems like an eternity. Lexus' first debut with the IS-F was a great first step into the market, I dont think sales did particularly well compared to the M3 C63 or RS4, but hey it was a good first attempt into the market and a glimpse of what was in store for future lexus buyers. My opinions on the F branch thus far:
IS-F: Good start, love it
LF-A: I get it, it was a statement car to show what Lexus was capable of; apparently alot.
RC-F: Nice car, but common with 7yrs after the debut of the IS-F there should be a little more than a 50hp gain..
GS-F: well Lexus, i was pretty stoked for this cars release, it was a dream of mine long before you even announced it; that one day you would bring this car to the market as powerful icon and landmark in Lexus history. But it was pretty disappointing. To wear the F badge, i was expecting it to be like a punch in the face; a brute force, raw powered, BEAST with ooohhh i dont know something like the RC-F engine, but maybe SUPERCHARGED?! orrrr at least a normally aspirated high performance version of that 5.7L you have laying around?! I mean i was expecting it to compete with the M5, that car is a true monster in the market. This was your chance lexus, and i think you disappointed me and many other current and future lexus buyers and enthusiasts with this one. But still I will stick around as a loyal Lexus/Toyota fan, in hopes that you will continue to advance and maybe with more time, bring us the car we have all been waiting for..
Seeing this performance surge and direction in the market these days, i thought it was a step forward for lexus/toyota as the #1 automobile company in the world, to take a step into high performance luxury cars, we all expect alot from the #1...
On a side note.... Infiniti and Hyundai are on rise for performance luxury as well. Watch out Lexus... that 5.0 Genesis is looking pretty good over there a far less expensive than your GS-F, and dont even get me started about the Q50 Eau Rouge... if thats even close to what infiniti says theyre trying to do with it.... that car will single handedly blow the F branch out of the water sky-high.... IF it is what they say it is.... THAT is a true japanese M5/E63 competitor, but we'll see what happens
Wait....Where's Honda in the midst of this? LMAO
IS-F: Good start, love it
LF-A: I get it, it was a statement car to show what Lexus was capable of; apparently alot.
RC-F: Nice car, but common with 7yrs after the debut of the IS-F there should be a little more than a 50hp gain..
GS-F: well Lexus, i was pretty stoked for this cars release, it was a dream of mine long before you even announced it; that one day you would bring this car to the market as powerful icon and landmark in Lexus history. But it was pretty disappointing. To wear the F badge, i was expecting it to be like a punch in the face; a brute force, raw powered, BEAST with ooohhh i dont know something like the RC-F engine, but maybe SUPERCHARGED?! orrrr at least a normally aspirated high performance version of that 5.7L you have laying around?! I mean i was expecting it to compete with the M5, that car is a true monster in the market. This was your chance lexus, and i think you disappointed me and many other current and future lexus buyers and enthusiasts with this one. But still I will stick around as a loyal Lexus/Toyota fan, in hopes that you will continue to advance and maybe with more time, bring us the car we have all been waiting for..
Seeing this performance surge and direction in the market these days, i thought it was a step forward for lexus/toyota as the #1 automobile company in the world, to take a step into high performance luxury cars, we all expect alot from the #1...
On a side note.... Infiniti and Hyundai are on rise for performance luxury as well. Watch out Lexus... that 5.0 Genesis is looking pretty good over there a far less expensive than your GS-F, and dont even get me started about the Q50 Eau Rouge... if thats even close to what infiniti says theyre trying to do with it.... that car will single handedly blow the F branch out of the water sky-high.... IF it is what they say it is.... THAT is a true japanese M5/E63 competitor, but we'll see what happens
Wait....Where's Honda in the midst of this? LMAO
That way even even Lexus is rumored to be working on a TT V8 for next gen SCF / LCF, so you are right we'll see what happens
04-15-15, 12:30 PM
#55
Lexus Test Driver
To me the sad part is that Toyota / Lexus can Build excellent performance cars but they CHOOSE not to do it.
Its one thing that they cant or they lack the $$$$$.
But no, the richest car company in the world basically is just lazy and really dont give a crap about enthusiasts.
Honestly how much $$$$ does Nissan make on GTR? Prob not a lot.
Or Honda with new NSX???
But at least they invested the resources.
Toyota has so much more to give to the Auto Industry but they rather just be average and watch the $$$$$ roll in to their pockets.
Its one thing that they cant or they lack the $$$$$.
But no, the richest car company in the world basically is just lazy and really dont give a crap about enthusiasts.
Honestly how much $$$$ does Nissan make on GTR? Prob not a lot.
Or Honda with new NSX???
But at least they invested the resources.
Toyota has so much more to give to the Auto Industry but they rather just be average and watch the $$$$$ roll in to their pockets.
04-15-15, 12:53 PM
#56
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To me the sad part is that Toyota / Lexus can Build excellent performance cars but they CHOOSE not to do it.
Its one thing that they cant or they lack the $$$$$.
But no, the richest car company in the world basically is just lazy and really dont give a crap about enthusiasts.
Honestly how much $$$$ does Nissan make on GTR? Prob not a lot.
Or Honda with new NSX???
But at least they invested the resources.
Toyota has so much more to give to the Auto Industry but they rather just be average and watch the $$$$$ roll in to their pockets.
Its one thing that they cant or they lack the $$$$$.
But no, the richest car company in the world basically is just lazy and really dont give a crap about enthusiasts.
Honestly how much $$$$ does Nissan make on GTR? Prob not a lot.
Or Honda with new NSX???
But at least they invested the resources.
Toyota has so much more to give to the Auto Industry but they rather just be average and watch the $$$$$ roll in to their pockets.
04-15-15, 05:20 PM
#58
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Front Page News!
Had to bring some of this good stuff over to the front page...
https://www.clublexus.com/articles/c...-doesnt-get-f/
https://www.clublexus.com/articles/c...-doesnt-get-f/
04-15-15, 05:27 PM
#59
Lexus Test Driver
Though, I understand the frustration of lack of recognition of the F brand by people like Clarkson or Chris Harris. In Chris Harris' defense, he is far from a Lexus hater.
Actually, he was the first person who broke the news of LFA lap record of 7:14 around Nurburgring on his blog as he was standing there. I saw him fight with haters on his blog who dissed the LFA. He had said, only Porsche Carrera GT comes to LFA in terms of driving experience and not much else.
Actually, he was the first person who broke the news of LFA lap record of 7:14 around Nurburgring on his blog as he was standing there. I saw him fight with haters on his blog who dissed the LFA. He had said, only Porsche Carrera GT comes to LFA in terms of driving experience and not much else.
