Chris Harris:What The F Is A Lexus Performance Car?
04-14-15, 12:18 PM
#31
yup. that's why as much as i love the LFA i think it was a big mistake to launch such a high end and very limited availability product WITHOUT having much of a game plan in any reasonable time frame to bring more excitement to the rest of the product line. the roll-out of 'f' has been woefully slow but we've been here before with l-tuned, trd, f-sport. BUT, sloowly, lexus is getting there.
04-14-15, 12:33 PM
#32
You look at size way too one dimensionally. For example, you know an AMG GT is only 2" shorter than an M/RCF, yet only a 2 seater? Wheelbase determines interior space, not overall car length. AMG GT has 7" less wheelbase, yet only 2" shorter? Its because its hood is massive. Many other coupes are like this. This is what classic FR coupe proportions are suppose to be: long hood, short wheelbase, short rear overhang. Every true FR coupe out there is like this: Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, Viper, etc.
M4 has the same wheelbase as the 3, because its based off a sedan. Of course a coupe that is based off a sedan is going to have more backseat room than one originally designed as a coupe. So it has more room, but what it doesnt have is coupe proportions. Which is why the M3 looks FAR better and not to mention cheaper.
04-14-15, 12:48 PM
#34
so you conveniently pointed out that the m4 are rcf are two different cars, but then the rcf and porsche should be put together in the same talk?
i personally put porsche in a even more sports car category than the m4. side by side against a porsche 911s or gt3, the m4 and rcf are like cruisers to me.
so yeah, let's not put them together
i personally put porsche in a even more sports car category than the m4. side by side against a porsche 911s or gt3, the m4 and rcf are like cruisers to me.
so yeah, let's not put them together
04-14-15, 12:49 PM
#35
Lexus Test Driver
^
Ok im confused.
M4 is a sports car because it rides harsh????? Lol
Any 911 even the base one rides a lot harsher and is much less comfortable on the freeway.
In the M4 and RCF the car is based on sedan chassis therefore doesnt have the low center of gravity of MB GT or 911 which were designed without compromises.
From your comments it appears you never driven a 911 or current M4.
Please drive them - they are worlds apart.
Ok im confused.
M4 is a sports car because it rides harsh????? Lol
Any 911 even the base one rides a lot harsher and is much less comfortable on the freeway.
In the M4 and RCF the car is based on sedan chassis therefore doesnt have the low center of gravity of MB GT or 911 which were designed without compromises.
From your comments it appears you never driven a 911 or current M4.
Please drive them - they are worlds apart.
04-14-15, 01:14 PM
#36
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succinctly put, from a branding / momentum standpoint. of course lexus no doubt learned a bunch from building it and that tech has and will spill into other vehicles bit by bit.
i will say again to all that i was blown away completely by the LFA. it is SPECTACULAR in looks, sounds, and execution. i don't believe it has stupid sound generators like other cars, and it has PERFECT stance/fitment. it is a rightful heir to japan's first great supercar, the nsx. not necessarily the best at any one thing, but as an overall package, simply sublime, and daily drivable.
but yes, apart from appearances in hit and miss commercials, some trade shows, and enthusiast events that buyers of other brands won't really notice, they didn't get much mileage out of it.
the BIGGEST compliment it got was probably from that crazy brit clarkson.
i will say again to all that i was blown away completely by the LFA. it is SPECTACULAR in looks, sounds, and execution. i don't believe it has stupid sound generators like other cars, and it has PERFECT stance/fitment. it is a rightful heir to japan's first great supercar, the nsx. not necessarily the best at any one thing, but as an overall package, simply sublime, and daily drivable.
but yes, apart from appearances in hit and miss commercials, some trade shows, and enthusiast events that buyers of other brands won't really notice, they didn't get much mileage out of it.
the BIGGEST compliment it got was probably from that crazy brit clarkson.
04-14-15, 01:16 PM
#37
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Jalopnik attacks Lexus for not making more high powered cars like the LFA. But then they attack the LFA for "being the worst halo car of all time". You can't win. Lol...The LFA was criticized for being too expensive, too exclusive. But if that's what it takes to make a halo car with Lexus caliber, then the Jalponik critics should pay up. Lexus has no obligation to Jalopnik writers to make the LFA affordable to them.
http://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-l...l-t-1651833560
http://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-l...l-t-1651833560
04-14-15, 01:29 PM
#38
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Jalopnik attacks Lexus for not making more high powered cars like the LFA. But then they attack the LFA for "being the worst halo car of all time". You can't win. Lol...The LFA was criticized for being too expensive, too exclusive. But if that's what it takes to make a halo car with Lexus caliber, then the Jalponik critics should pay up. Lexus has no obligation to Jalopnik writers to make the LFA affordable to them.
http://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-l...l-t-1651833560
http://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-l...l-t-1651833560
I hope this helps...
04-14-15, 01:33 PM
#39
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and you didnt even understand what I was pointing out. CH obviously loves turbo cars, so its natural he calls a 5.0 NA V8 engine outdated. Yet later on he writes an article complaining that NA 911 cars are all going turbo and possibly losing its NA driveability. Wait how come its not outdated when Porsche does it? Guy cant even make up his mind on what he wants. If he liked turbo cars why complain about all 911s going turbo? Lexus stuck with NA for the same reason Porsche kept NA on its 911s up till now and especially its top 911. If CH was consistent there wouldnt be complaints but he is blatantly inconsistent. Its because of this NA driveability that a car with a 400# weight disadvantage can somehow stay competitive with a much lighter car. On paper, M should be beating the RCF on a track decisively, but hardly. You know what else matched the M4 and RCF in the Head 2 Head Motor Trend tests? Camaro 1LE and the new Mustang GT, they are also using "outdated" engines.
The RC-F is made out of old recycled parts, it brings nothing new to the table. Todays F cars would have been great, even class leading about 8 years ago... Why are you comparing a 911 to the rc-f, two very different cars.
04-14-15, 02:02 PM
#40
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People can't handle the fact that F brand has been diluted with such decision to put out incompetent products.
M4 rides firmer than RC-F, not harsher. It's a great daily driver, not a harsher sporstcar people made it out to be. It doesn't have ride quality of a "fat" 4000lb RC-F because it doesn't weight like one.
M4 rides firmer than RC-F, not harsher. It's a great daily driver, not a harsher sporstcar people made it out to be. It doesn't have ride quality of a "fat" 4000lb RC-F because it doesn't weight like one.
04-14-15, 05:52 PM
#41
and you didnt even understand what I was pointing out. CH obviously loves turbo cars, so its natural he calls a 5.0 NA V8 engine outdated. Yet later on he writes an article complaining that NA 911 cars are all going turbo and possibly losing its NA driveability. Wait how come its not outdated when Porsche does it? Guy cant even make up his mind on what he wants. If he liked turbo cars why complain about all 911s going turbo? Lexus stuck with NA for the same reason Porsche kept NA on its 911s up till now and especially its top 911. If CH was consistent there wouldnt be complaints but he is blatantly inconsistent. Its because of this NA driveability that a car with a 400# weight disadvantage can somehow stay competitive with a much lighter car. On paper, M should be beating the RCF on a track decisively, but hardly. You know what else matched the M4 and RCF in the Head 2 Head Motor Trend tests? Camaro 1LE and the new Mustang GT, they are also using "outdated" engines.
regarding turbo and such, maybe chris is a fan of turbo but that only shows me that he's not a "fanboy" of turbo thinking all turbos are good (the fact that he disses on 911 turbo). i also remember he said the f40 turbo was hard to get used to and hard to drive too. and on more "street" gt cars, i can see debate that turbo is a better choice. i still remember when i had the e93 m3, how many people tried to argue saying that the car "had no tq"
succinctly put, from a branding / momentum standpoint. of course lexus no doubt learned a bunch from building it and that tech has and will spill into other vehicles bit by bit.
i will say again to all that i was blown away completely by the LFA. it is SPECTACULAR in looks, sounds, and execution. i don't believe it has stupid sound generators like other cars, and it has PERFECT stance/fitment. it is a rightful heir to japan's first great supercar, the nsx. not necessarily the best at any one thing, but as an overall package, simply sublime, and daily drivable.
but yes, apart from appearances in hit and miss commercials, some trade shows, and enthusiast events that buyers of other brands won't really notice, they didn't get much mileage out of it.
the BIGGEST compliment it got was probably from that crazy brit clarkson.
i will say again to all that i was blown away completely by the LFA. it is SPECTACULAR in looks, sounds, and execution. i don't believe it has stupid sound generators like other cars, and it has PERFECT stance/fitment. it is a rightful heir to japan's first great supercar, the nsx. not necessarily the best at any one thing, but as an overall package, simply sublime, and daily drivable.
but yes, apart from appearances in hit and miss commercials, some trade shows, and enthusiast events that buyers of other brands won't really notice, they didn't get much mileage out of it.
the BIGGEST compliment it got was probably from that crazy brit clarkson.
and technology wise i am glad that lexus did it and help develop for future too.
it's just from branding and momentum point of view, that's a pretty bad slip imho
04-14-15, 07:38 PM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
I used to enjoy Harris' writing and videos from his Evo days, especially on anything Porsche and Ferrari. Now he comes across as a whinging freelancer who randomly pops up everywhere.
Why should every sedan be an M5 or E63? What's wrong with Lexus making sensible cars that aren't great at 10/10ths but are perfect for cruising? I wonder how many M5's are sold compared to basement-spec 520i's with manual shifters and cloth seats.
I think these reviewers get stuck in their own little worlds where all cars need to have razor sharp handling, at least 600 hp and weigh 1500 kg. In the real world of bad roads and bad traffic, sometimes people want something softer and less frantic.
Why should every sedan be an M5 or E63? What's wrong with Lexus making sensible cars that aren't great at 10/10ths but are perfect for cruising? I wonder how many M5's are sold compared to basement-spec 520i's with manual shifters and cloth seats.
I think these reviewers get stuck in their own little worlds where all cars need to have razor sharp handling, at least 600 hp and weigh 1500 kg. In the real world of bad roads and bad traffic, sometimes people want something softer and less frantic.
04-14-15, 07:48 PM
#43
I used to enjoy Harris' writing and videos from his Evo days, especially on anything Porsche and Ferrari. Now he comes across as a whinging freelancer who randomly pops up everywhere.
Why should every sedan be an M5 or E63? What's wrong with Lexus making sensible cars that aren't great at 10/10ths but are perfect for cruising? I wonder how many M5's are sold compared to basement-spec 520i's with manual shifters and cloth seats.
I think these reviewers get stuck in their own little worlds where all cars need to have razor sharp handling, at least 600 hp and weigh 1500 kg. In the real world of bad roads and bad traffic, sometimes people want something softer and less frantic.
Why should every sedan be an M5 or E63? What's wrong with Lexus making sensible cars that aren't great at 10/10ths but are perfect for cruising? I wonder how many M5's are sold compared to basement-spec 520i's with manual shifters and cloth seats.
I think these reviewers get stuck in their own little worlds where all cars need to have razor sharp handling, at least 600 hp and weigh 1500 kg. In the real world of bad roads and bad traffic, sometimes people want something softer and less frantic.
04-14-15, 07:57 PM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
What, did I just run over Chris Harris' dog or something?
Anyway, I don't care for his current writing style and videos, although I thought his work in Evo was pretty good. On the other hand, as an example of a good all-round reviewer who gets better and better, there's Steve Sutcliffe previously at Autocar and now at Auto Express.
Anyway, I don't care for his current writing style and videos, although I thought his work in Evo was pretty good. On the other hand, as an example of a good all-round reviewer who gets better and better, there's Steve Sutcliffe previously at Autocar and now at Auto Express.
