Chris Harris:What The F Is A Lexus Performance Car?
04-13-15, 10:23 PM
#16
Lexus Champion
Hes a flip flopper. Dude love/hates Ferrari regularly. F is an alternative to AMG, M, RS etc. They dont have to do things like the Germans. Lexus sales are going up in Europe, thats all that should matter. Increased sales means new Lexus buyers. A 23% increase in sales, hows that work if Lexus just wanted to sell to Lexus customers? If true their sales would be stagnant. This article is nothing but a tired repeated opinion piece that Lexus is bad.
04-14-15, 05:25 AM
#17
Hes trying too hard to compare a M4 (sportscar) with an RCF (GT car) and keeps complaining about the numbers. If I wanted numbers why would you even be looking at BMW or Lexus, can get better performance numbers for less price numbers elsewhere.
lost mine a while back with laughable comments about various cars. Like the infamous power dip in the FRS/BRZ is a feature. Really losing power for 1300 rpm in an underpowered car is a feature? Complains about RCF "outdated" engine but doesnt like 911s going all turbo. Says M4s torque is fine but many reviews have complained about its lack of rear grip. Make up your mind. All he does is power slide around on a track and says its great! As if thats any real performance metric. But all the 12 year olds like it I'm sure.
lost mine a while back with laughable comments about various cars. Like the infamous power dip in the FRS/BRZ is a feature. Really losing power for 1300 rpm in an underpowered car is a feature? Complains about RCF "outdated" engine but doesnt like 911s going all turbo. Says M4s torque is fine but many reviews have complained about its lack of rear grip. Make up your mind. All he does is power slide around on a track and says its great! As if thats any real performance metric. But all the 12 year olds like it I'm sure.
04-14-15, 07:18 AM
#18
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lost mine a while back with laughable comments about various cars. Like the infamous power dip in the FRS/BRZ is a feature. Really losing power for 1300 rpm in an underpowered car is a feature? Complains about RCF "outdated" engine but doesnt like 911s going all turbo. Says M4s torque is fine but many reviews have complained about its lack of rear grip. Make up your mind. All he does is power slide around on a track and says its great! As if thats any real performance metric. But all the 12 year olds like it I'm sure.
Look at his review of the C63 S where he is talking about people complaining about his power slides, and therefore drives normal laps. Steve Sutcliffe from Autocar has talked about this to.
04-14-15, 07:57 AM
#19
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The man is right, the people here will get angry because there favorite brand has been criticized (and rightly so). What is F? People are quick to justify Lexus's decisions because of their blind allegiance to brand. If MB were to release a half assed amg people would mock their performance credentials.
04-14-15, 07:58 AM
#20
What is the ratio of performance cars sold by the German brands (BMW,Audi, Merc) relative to their mainstream luxury cars? The performance cars comprise a minority of cars sold. The performance cars may get most of the hype in blogs such as Jalopnik, but the bread and better that keep the car companies alive are still the mainstream variants.
Why the obsession with performance cars? Not everyone who buys a luxury car wants a speed demon. They just want a luxurious reliable daily driver. This article writer wants Lexus to engage in a juvenile horsepower arms race with the Germans, and since Lexus doesn't do that, he proclaims Lexus a failure? Lexus is highly regarded even in the UK in terms of metrics that matter to most people. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ty-survey.html
Last time I checked, Lexus/Toyota is the largest car company in the world in terms of sales volume.
Why the obsession with performance cars? Not everyone who buys a luxury car wants a speed demon. They just want a luxurious reliable daily driver. This article writer wants Lexus to engage in a juvenile horsepower arms race with the Germans, and since Lexus doesn't do that, he proclaims Lexus a failure? Lexus is highly regarded even in the UK in terms of metrics that matter to most people. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...ty-survey.html
Last time I checked, Lexus/Toyota is the largest car company in the world in terms of sales volume.
Honestly, you have a bean counter's argument here. The kind that leads to terrible cars and dying brands. I don't think we want Lexus to become just like Acura, which is where that path leads.
04-14-15, 08:22 AM
#21
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The number of cars is only one parameter in the function of operating margin per car. Performance cars make much more money per car sold than mainstream cars, so not as many need to be sold. Performance cars also sell more mainstream cars by improving the value of the brand.
Honestly, you have a bean counter's argument here. The kind that leads to terrible cars and dying brands. I don't think we want Lexus to become just like Acura, which is where that path leads.
Honestly, you have a bean counter's argument here. The kind that leads to terrible cars and dying brands. I don't think we want Lexus to become just like Acura, which is where that path leads.
04-14-15, 09:27 AM
#22
I agree that the GSF is a disappointment already because it needs more power. It's still crazy that the RCF was so close to beating the M4 (10K more with a brake upgrade) and is still being scoffed at. I am not a fan of the RCF looks but I think it is good for the F brand to have a coupe. My 08 ISF was an amazing car and I miss it now even though I am in a GTR. I hope to get another ISF down the road.
04-14-15, 09:56 AM
#23
The only Lexus F car remotely interesting to me was the IS-F. When it came out, it reminded me of the 2nd gen GS debut. Lexus made a statement with those cars. RC-F? It's an improvement over the IS-F, but nothing that makes me want to go out and buy one. Perhaps I'm just not a target for the Lexus F brand.
04-14-15, 11:09 AM
#25
First of all, Porsches NA engines are made for the purpose of track driving, the whole car is meant to be driven under full throttle at max rpm:s. This is not the case with RC-F that is far, far away from beeing a track car . To lose that option in Porsche would be sad as well as the manual gearboxes.
04-14-15, 11:12 AM
#26
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CH called the RCF engine outdated when compared to M but then later on wrote an article complaining about 911s move to all turbos and losing NA driveability. This guy is so inconsistent. RCF is easier to control because it is NA, hence why most 911s especially the top 911 (GT3) is NA. Surely the GT3 isnt oudated. Outdated when Lexus does it, but dont take it away from Porsche!
04-14-15, 11:19 AM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
So now the M4 that has a huge backseat and is the SAME exact size as the RCF is a SPORTS car.
911 is a sportscar
R8 is a sportscar
M4 and RCf are both GT cars that can be daily driven with all luxury you can ever need.
Lets stop making excuses and admit that the F brand is a disaster at this point compared to Audi RS, cadillac V.
Dont even bring up M and AMG.
04-14-15, 12:02 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
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yup. that's why as much as i love the LFA i think it was a big mistake to launch such a high end and very limited availability product WITHOUT having much of a game plan in any reasonable time frame to bring more excitement to the rest of the product line. the roll-out of 'f' has been woefully slow but we've been here before with l-tuned, trd, f-sport. BUT, sloowly, lexus is getting there.
04-14-15, 12:07 PM
#29
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yup. that's why as much as i love the LFA i think it was a big mistake to launch such a high end and very limited availability product WITHOUT having much of a game plan in any reasonable time frame to bring more excitement to the rest of the product line. the roll-out of 'f' has been woefully slow but we've been here before with l-tuned, trd, f-sport. BUT, sloowly, lexus is getting there.
04-14-15, 12:16 PM
#30
Hes trying too hard to compare a M4 (sportscar) with an RCF (GT car) and keeps complaining about the numbers. If I wanted numbers why would you even be looking at BMW or Lexus, can get better performance numbers for less price numbers elsewhere.
lost mine a while back with laughable comments about various cars. Like the infamous power dip in the FRS/BRZ is a feature. Really losing power for 1300 rpm in an underpowered car is a feature? Complains about RCF "outdated" engine but doesnt like 911s going all turbo. Says M4s torque is fine but many reviews have complained about its lack of rear grip. Make up your mind. All he does is power slide around on a track and says its great! As if thats any real performance metric. But all the 12 year olds like it I'm sure.
lost mine a while back with laughable comments about various cars. Like the infamous power dip in the FRS/BRZ is a feature. Really losing power for 1300 rpm in an underpowered car is a feature? Complains about RCF "outdated" engine but doesnt like 911s going all turbo. Says M4s torque is fine but many reviews have complained about its lack of rear grip. Make up your mind. All he does is power slide around on a track and says its great! As if thats any real performance metric. But all the 12 year olds like it I'm sure.
CH called the RCF engine outdated when compared to M but then later on wrote an article complaining about 911s move to all turbos and losing NA driveability. This guy is so inconsistent. RCF is easier to control because it is NA, hence why most 911s especially the top 911 (GT3) is NA. Surely the GT3 isnt oudated. Outdated when Lexus does it, but dont take it away from Porsche!
i personally put porsche in a even more sports car category than the m4. side by side against a porsche 911s or gt3, the m4 and rcf are like cruisers to me.
so yeah, let's not put them together