dseag2

They actually did put wood on the console of the later models. I owned a '99 SC300. The odd thing was that the wood on the shifter never matched it, so I'm not sure what Lexus was thinking.

I agree that it was a well-designed car from an ergonomic standpoint but that "clean" interior would be hard to replicate with all the technology available these days. I actually think my Audi S5 interior is about the closest to my beloved SC.

dseag2

BTW, anyone who uses the term "classy" really isn't, unless you're Ron Burgundy.

sojah

iTrader: (1)

oh believe me, i'm a classy gentleman if there ever was one... "i'm kind of a big deal" no not really at all, i just like classy stuff

just not a fan of the 'new' lex is all.

markneups

The ES has fallen to never seen lows. It is now rated well below the -- never thought I would say this--- Chevy Impala. I drove a 2015 ES. The ride was stiff,seats were shallow and uncomfortable and the interior was cheap looking. It's a looser. Then tried the Chevy---drove like the ES use to.

SW17LS

I agree with you about the interior of the ES, my opinions on the matter are well documented.

But...the ES continues to sell very well, not sure how someone can call it a "looser"

The aim of the game is to sell cars...and the car sells...so its a "winner".

markneups

Let's wait and see this years numbers. I believe you will see a drop. The ES is nowhere near what the car use to be. The Chevy Is an all around bargain dollar wise,style wise and fit,finish and ride quality wise.
This is nothing new for Toyota. I had a beautiful black 2008 Prius. Great in every respect. I traded it in for a 2010 Prius. That year was the fall in all areas. That fact is well documented. They have since improved the all around quality. Almost back to 2008 levels.

SW17LS

The current ES has been out for nearly 3 years now...its sales success is a fact, not a theory. Sales are tracked every month...sales aren't down. The 2016 refresh will address a lot of the quality issues, and sales will be even better.

I agree its not the car it used to be, which is why I didn't get a third one, but sales figures reflect that isn't an issue with buyers.

The Chevy is a great car, but are people really cross shopping a Chevy and an ES? I doubt significantly. GM and Ford have always had full size cars that ride great, thats not new.

mmarshall

You bring up an interesting point here, though. No, in most cases, potential buyers probably are not directly cross-shopping the ES and Impala. They are far more likely to be cross-shopping the ES and Buick LaCrosse, as Buick directly targets Lexus in its ads, on paper, if not in fact. The problem is that, on the road, the Chevy is actually (at least IMO) better-driving than the Lacrosse, and is a better ES competitor. That's not necessarily because the LaCrosse is a bad product (in fact, it is not, and is done on the same platform as the Impala)...it's just that the new Impala is such a great leap over the previous rental-grade version that the two can't even be mentioned in the same sentence (though I just did) . Of course, if AWD is desired, then it's the LaCrosse, hands-down.......neither the Impala or ES (yet) offer it.

sojah

iTrader: (1)

i was going to ask you how the new impala compared to the old until i finished reading your post. i used to work at an organization in the dc area and we had a bunch of the 2012 impala's as company cars. they were by far the worst feeling and riding car i'd driven in years. they were so unresponsive just random in their floaty handling feel. since they were work cars occasionally i would take a corner a little fast and the tires would squeal at such a low speed and the car was so awkward. it had massive understeer until the weight changed direction and the car started to slip and then it had nothing but oversteer. prolly had something to do with the cheap *** tires that came on it, but the suspension and overall car was garbage in my opinion. i sure hope they got a good deal on them...

chikoo

Bargain. Looser. ES350 compared to the Chevy Impala?

I have driven both and there is no comparison. only in your mind.

mmarshall

Here...read this, and this should address most of your concerns:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...mpala-2lt.html

mmarshall

So have I. While the ES is not a bad car by any means (actually, a pretty decent one), it clearly is not the equal of its predecessors. The new Impala, on the other hand, in most areas, leaves its predecessors in the dust. Of course, any comparison is at least partly objective, and if you personally prefer the new ES to the new Impala, that's your choice. But you can't call the new Impala a loser...too many different organizations and reviews rate it very highly.

markneups

What I mean is the Lexus grill is excessive. Similar to the Edsel. Audi and BMW grills size fit the front of the car. They were not overly sized as is the new Lexus line. Lexus falls into the Edsel grill and 59-60 chevy fin fad. It will,tame it down real quick. I don't think the general public will,except it as a long term thing.

markneups

Your then in denial.

SW17LS

Big grills are in, that isn't a Lexus-specific phenomenon. Even BMW...their grills have grown significantly over the last few years. The grills on a 7 Series are Huge. Look at new Mercedes, grills are huge. Look at the new Cadillac Escalade...HUGE grill.

The big grill is a styling trend that will pass I agree, but its not a Lexus specific thing.