SW17LS

2011 is not the late 90s iS it? Also, the DTS Itself was not bad, that was the loaded car. Plus there were $10-15k in incentives on those cars by that time. So no, it was never a $60k car...most Devilles sold In The mid to high $30s-$45k. Down in the mid 40s this is fine, but optioned well they're going to be over $60k, just too much money for such a car. Need evidence? Look at the Acura RLX. The XTS is the same way, when you get the luxury options you want they're over $60k which is too much for such a car.

While they're alive. Lincolns hopes are not tied entirely to this rapidly shrinking population.

Honestly I'd rather have a base 2.0 4 power train than this transverse layout, at least you can option out of that, this will always basically be a FWD car. Having optional AWD on a transverse FWD layout car doesn't solve the issue, it will always feel and look like a FWD car, and buyers at this price point don't want that.

Lincoln needs buyers like like me to survive. This may sell to a few Lincoln loyalists who are ancient and don't care about such things, but people like me that are true luxury consumers and have 40 years left to buy cars aren't going to buy this car. Rental fleets will be full of them. Limo companies will be happy, just as is the case with the XTS. They will make a great Hearse. Hey, then those Town Car buyers get one last ride

There was no STS/SLS in 1990. in 1990 no sheet metal or interior parts were shared between the Continental and the Taurus. You're missing the point, the point is a real luxury car should not be derived from a downmarket car, it should be its own platform. This is nothing but an XTS/ RLX style car. This car, while attractive is a sign that Lincoln is not serious about being a real luxury marque. They're content to stay alongside Acura, Volvo, etc. Cadillac is serious by example.

Theres a a reason why the Lexus ES is not Lexus flagship car. There's a reason why the LS is not simply a much nicer version of the ES.

Amd the 90s Town Car had no better an interior than the Continental. It never had a great interior.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

This is DOA.

SW17LS

Note the response from the consumers here about the Continental and then read the responses here about the CT6 and tell me that a proper RWD layout and a proper bespoke premium platform aren't important.

SW17LS

So I just priced one.

The base $45k car has no leather and no even auto dimming mirror. So that's out.

A Select package (middle) optioned like I would want with the upgrade engine and AWD is $64,000.

To to go to a Lincoln as In the Cadillac CT6 I would want the top package. Optioned how I would want it with LED lights and tech, not loaded! I'm at $74k that is not the black label.

That money is absurd for this car. Loaded it should be $65k.

mmarshall

Fine, disagree. But the fact it that, like it or not, we probably aren't going to see any more new TC or DTS-sized sedans in the American market any more.......unless you move up to the six-figure class. Although the Hyundai Equus and Kia K900, which are both very slow sellers, are also an option (and they have the nice soft ride that many upscale sedans today lack), the new Continental and CT6 are about the closest you are going to get today to the old DTS and TC.

I haven't seen it close up in person.....but, from what I have seen in pictures and on the turntable at the D.C. Auto Show, I can agree with you here.


Have you looked at the new 2017 MKZ? The mid-generation facelift addressed several of the shortcomings of the old one. It has a new Continental-like grille/headlights with that Jaguar look, the awkward finger-slide-controls on the console have been replaced with rotary-*****, and the general level of trim and materials inside is noticeably upgraded. I just did a static-review of the 2017 facelifts......you can use that as a reference, if you have not seen it in person.

I do agree, though, that the pre-facelift 2016 model left much to be desired.

Ford has gotten burned in the past for posting MPG figures on some of its products that were too rosy. Perhaps, now, they are being ultra-careful not to overdo the estimates.

mmarshall

Well, we can argue it all day, but in the end, it will be the sales figures and demographics of those who buy this car that tell the story. Though I have sometimes been wrong before, I still think (with a decent level of confidence) that those who consider or buy this car, including a number of limo and executive-car firms, aren't going to care which way the engine is configured or which set of wheels drive the car. And, for those who don't care for FWD, there is always the AWD option. I don't always agree with Jill, but she is correct on this one.

geko29

A loaded Black Label actually tops $80k. That's beyond absurd for a FWD-based car, getting close to true flagship (LS, S-class, 7-series, A8, XJ) money. I agree with Bit.

For reference, a Genesis G90 (formerly Equus) with the 5.0 V8, (RWD-based) AWD and the Ultimate package goes for $73k. With Lincoln placing such an emphasis on the backseat of the Continental, the fact that a competitor on a better platform whose rear compartment has been described by several in the auto press as the one that is "most comparable to the S600 Maybach" is $7k cheaper is not a good place to be.

mmarshall

Agreed on loaded versions. I've said, before, in Lincoln views, that I felt the Black Label, Reserve, and other top-dog versions were overpriced, though it does include some extra customer perks that don't come with lesser versions. But, check out a loaded CT6 if you want to see an even more absurd price.....90K+.

Are you referring to the inside mirror, or the twin outside mirrors? It's hard to imagine a true luxury car today without a auto-dim inside mirror....my 25K Verano has one.

(BTW, leather seats DO come in the Select 200A version, which is not that much more than the base. It starts at 47.5K.)

Toys4RJill

I agree with you. The interior is what is going to make this car succeed or not. The underpinnings and powertrain are good enough but Lincoln is trying to appeal to the buyers who want "quiet luxury"....I think people also have to understand that Lincoln has finally understood that they are not going to build a car this going to catch or compete with the Germans, they have given up on that.

Yes I have seen the new MKZ, they had a few of the them at the dealer where the Continental was located. Its the same basic design of the MKZ that sucks. Looks to similar inside to the pre-refresh models.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

this will do as well as the acura rlx.

mmarshall

The last time I sampled an RLX, I found it surprisingly comfortable, smooth-riding, and reasonably well-built, though it noticeably lacked the previous tank-like solidity of the 2Gen SH-AWD RL.

SW17LS

I agree, but his point is that they only sell 400 of them a year. Consumers don't even look at the car because it's too expensive for what it is, as this continental is.

I find it it funny we argue about size. Measurements are what they are.

Continental: 201.4" long. It's a full sized car.

TangoRed

For the record, I think the RLX has more issues than just its FWD platform. It doesn't play the luxury game convincingly at all inside or out.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

The SH-AWD wasn't the problem with the RL/RLX, the entire car was the problem

TangoRed

LOL. My thoughts exactly.