Getting off the leasing merry go-round
03-30-15, 03:07 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Sorry...I overlooked that. ...
But....if you buy do it out, doesn't that ALSO include a profit on the buyback price, in addition to whatever profit the dealer already got on the lease itself? The dealer is not likely going to let you have it for straight-residual, is he, without a mark-up, even after the lease-profits?
But....if you buy do it out, doesn't that ALSO include a profit on the buyback price, in addition to whatever profit the dealer already got on the lease itself? The dealer is not likely going to let you have it for straight-residual, is he, without a mark-up, even after the lease-profits?
and you questioned why i might find leasing confusing?
it's not that i couldn't understand it, i just haven't spent enough time studying it. to me leasing is deliberately confusing with alternative terms to those used in a purchase like cap costs, residuals, etc.
03-30-15, 03:24 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
and you questioned why i might find leasing confusing?
it's not that i couldn't understand it, i just haven't spent enough time studying it. to me leasing is deliberately confusing with alternative terms to those used in a purchase like cap costs, residuals, etc.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-30-15 at 03:28 PM.
03-30-15, 03:31 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
The lease contract I signed in May was basically the same contract I signed in 1998, and 2003, and 2004, and 2010, and 2011 and 2012.
i'm not sure where you get some of this stuff lol
03-30-15, 03:40 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Thats actually not true. Lease contracts are not regulated by any federal or local laws, and federal truth in lending laws and guidelines do not apply to leases.
The lease contract I signed in May was basically the same contract I signed in 1998, and 2003, and 2004, and 2010, and 2011 and 2012.
i'm not sure where you get some of this stuff lol
The lease contract I signed in May was basically the same contract I signed in 1998, and 2003, and 2004, and 2010, and 2011 and 2012.
i'm not sure where you get some of this stuff lol
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/leasing/
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-30-15 at 03:47 PM.
03-30-15, 04:12 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
This is a quick, basic explanation of the Federal Consumer Lease act, as it applies to auto leases. It's not the entire act, of course, but gives a quick summary. I didn't post it earlier because I assumed most people were aware of it.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/leasing/
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/leasing/
A description of the act:
This Act, amending the Truth in Lending Act, regulates personal property leases that exceed 4 months in duration and that are made to consumers for personal, family, or household purposes. The statute requires that certain lease costs and terms be disclosed, imposes limitations on the size of penalties for delinquency or default and on the size of residual liabilities, and requires certain disclosures in lease advertising.
I mean...just look at all of the things you didn't understand about leasing until you read this thread.
03-30-15, 04:25 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by SW13GS
I mean...just look at all of the things you didn't understand about leasing until you read this thread.
But probably very few people, outside of business managers at dealerships, understand it completely. That is why it is one of the top sources of consumer-complaints across the country, along with auto-repair charges and work that is not done correctly.
Of course, leasing is not for everyone. The OP, for example, who started this thread, seems to want out.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-30-15 at 04:34 PM.
03-30-15, 04:36 PM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
Many peope on this forum understand lease feom A to Z. Yes it is not for everyone, but it is not very complicated and can be mastered with a little bit of reading and reseaching.
No, I've personally never leased a car for my own use, but have shopped with some others who have (one for a nice Chrysler 300). They haven't had any complaints with the deals they got...if they did, believe me, I would probably have gotten an earful.
But probably very few people, outside of business managers at dealerships, understand it completely. That is why it is one of the top sources of consumer-complaints across the country, along with auto-repair charges and work that is not done correctly.
Of course, leasing is not for everyone. The OP, for example, who started this thread, seems to want out.
But probably very few people, outside of business managers at dealerships, understand it completely. That is why it is one of the top sources of consumer-complaints across the country, along with auto-repair charges and work that is not done correctly.
Of course, leasing is not for everyone. The OP, for example, who started this thread, seems to want out.
03-30-15, 04:41 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed. Most of those I shopped with on lease-deals didn't have any problems on the deal, and seemed quite satisfied. Still, it's surprising how many don't know, though, that they can deduct the payments if the vehicle is used in an IRS-appoved method for business and itemize deductions.
03-30-15, 06:29 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Absolutely. Look, leasing isn't rocket surgery, but there's a reason that most car dealers place ads promoting leasing, and not purchasing, and there's tons of small fine print, and radio ads where they say a bunch of indecipherable mish-mosh. Most people dread the car buying process, so throwing out new terms, and selling you a "monthly payment" instead of a bottom line price; if someone with 40k posts isn't going to take the time to understand all the ins and outs of leasing, what do you think Joe Schmoe walking in off the street is going to do?
03-30-15, 06:54 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by tex2670
Most people dread the car buying process, so throwing out new terms, and selling you a "monthly payment" instead of a bottom line price; if someone with 40k posts isn't going to take the time to understand all the ins and outs of leasing, what do you think Joe Schmoe walking in off the street is going to do?
03-30-15, 07:14 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
There is a very easy stiky read, in Car Chat. Check it out. I agree that Getting a good deal is not easy wheather you Leasing or Buying, but if you are not worried about getting a good deal, then its all nice and easy! Even the Lease.
Buying is just as hard as leasing if you dont want to be robbed, and pretty much the same principle apply.
Buying is just as hard as leasing if you dont want to be robbed, and pretty much the same principle apply.
Absolutely. Look, leasing isn't rocket surgery, but there's a reason that most car dealers place ads promoting leasing, and not purchasing, and there's tons of small fine print, and radio ads where they say a bunch of indecipherable mish-mosh. Most people dread the car buying process, so throwing out new terms, and selling you a "monthly payment" instead of a bottom line price; if someone with 40k posts isn't going to take the time to understand all the ins and outs of leasing, what do you think Joe Schmoe walking in off the street is going to do?
03-30-15, 07:24 PM
#42
Intermediate
Here's an idea - stop buying/leasing new! Whether you lease or buy off the lot, the depreciation alone makes it a terrible financial decision. Granted, a Toyota/Lexus does WAY better than most at holding its value, but if you really want to get out of the "game", go buy a 2-3 year old vehicle and hang on to it for a few years. The COA of a Lexus isn't that risky, but if you are really worried about it, then buy CPO and get a 100k mile warranty. You'll easily save yourself 10-20k with that plan for each car you buy.
It's difficult these days with the rapid advancement of technology, and the relative easy at which it's dropped into a vehicle while everything else stays the same, but who cares. Do you really want the car to parallel park for you? Or beep at you every time you touch a white line with a tire?
Meh. I enjoy driving my 1976 Land Cruiser as much as I enjoy my wife's Lexus...
It's difficult these days with the rapid advancement of technology, and the relative easy at which it's dropped into a vehicle while everything else stays the same, but who cares. Do you really want the car to parallel park for you? Or beep at you every time you touch a white line with a tire?
Meh. I enjoy driving my 1976 Land Cruiser as much as I enjoy my wife's Lexus...
03-30-15, 08:29 PM
#43
Lexus Champion
there's no free lunch...
buy and you're financing or paying for the whole thing, the car depreciates, you sell at some point for what it's worth and start over.
lease and you're financing or paying the depreciation for the term and end up with nothing at the end.
if you keep a car longer than say 4-5 years, then buying can make sense. if you want a new car every 2-4 years then leasing is the way to go, but there isn't a whole lot in it either way, EXCEPT if you drive a lot of or very few miles. in your case you drive very few so leasing has probably cost you more than it should (plus you negotiate by 'feel' and not data). if you drive a lot it may or may not make sense to lease.
but overall, for most people, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the long run. i've always bought, but this time i seriously had a hard time justifying buying (but did anyway, probably because i find leasing so confusing).
i've said for years though as cars get more complex and expensive, eventually MOST people will rent/lease a car. but in urban areas with services like uber and lyft, more and more people won't bother at all with the HUGE expense of owning/leasing.
buy and you're financing or paying for the whole thing, the car depreciates, you sell at some point for what it's worth and start over.
lease and you're financing or paying the depreciation for the term and end up with nothing at the end.
if you keep a car longer than say 4-5 years, then buying can make sense. if you want a new car every 2-4 years then leasing is the way to go, but there isn't a whole lot in it either way, EXCEPT if you drive a lot of or very few miles. in your case you drive very few so leasing has probably cost you more than it should (plus you negotiate by 'feel' and not data
). if you drive a lot it may or may not make sense to lease.but overall, for most people, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the long run. i've always bought, but this time i seriously had a hard time justifying buying (but did anyway, probably because i find leasing so confusing).
i've said for years though as cars get more complex and expensive, eventually MOST people will rent/lease a car. but in urban areas with services like uber and lyft, more and more people won't bother at all with the HUGE expense of owning/leasing.
03-30-15, 08:33 PM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Here's an idea - stop buying/leasing new! Whether you lease or buy off the lot, the depreciation alone makes it a terrible financial decision. Granted, a Toyota/Lexus does WAY better than most at holding its value, but if you really want to get out of the "game", go buy a 2-3 year old vehicle and hang on to it for a few years. The COA of a Lexus isn't that risky, but if you are really worried about it, then buy CPO and get a 100k mile warranty. You'll easily save yourself 10-20k with that plan for each car you buy.
It's difficult these days with the rapid advancement of technology, and the relative easy at which it's dropped into a vehicle while everything else stays the same, but who cares. Do you really want the car to parallel park for you? Or beep at you every time you touch a white line with a tire?
Meh. I enjoy driving my 1976 Land Cruiser as much as I enjoy my wife's Lexus...
It's difficult these days with the rapid advancement of technology, and the relative easy at which it's dropped into a vehicle while everything else stays the same, but who cares. Do you really want the car to parallel park for you? Or beep at you every time you touch a white line with a tire?
Meh. I enjoy driving my 1976 Land Cruiser as much as I enjoy my wife's Lexus...
03-30-15, 11:42 PM
#45
Rookie
Thread Starter
I've received a lot of input on my questions; I really appreciate all the feedback.
Today I called LFS and got the final payoff amount which was $36,500. I'm pretty certain that's at least a couple of grand under the fair market value. They said that figure includes ALL fees and they do not collect tax in my state. They confirmed that this transaction can occur via phone, e-mail, and mail. Once they get a check, they mail out the title. In discussing my dilemma with the LFS agent; explained that I'm not excited about any of the current models and don't really want a 2015 GS since it is basically the same car, he did mention that I can extend the lease automatically for up to 6 months. That might buy me enough time to see the next model year and find something I want more than my current car.
There has been quite a bit of discussion comparing the cost of leasing vs. purchasing. My guess is that if you are a skilled negotiator (major qualifier) there isn't a significant difference. You are paying for the depreciation cost either via leasing fees or in the declining value of the car when you sell it/trade it.
Today I called LFS and got the final payoff amount which was $36,500. I'm pretty certain that's at least a couple of grand under the fair market value. They said that figure includes ALL fees and they do not collect tax in my state. They confirmed that this transaction can occur via phone, e-mail, and mail. Once they get a check, they mail out the title. In discussing my dilemma with the LFS agent; explained that I'm not excited about any of the current models and don't really want a 2015 GS since it is basically the same car, he did mention that I can extend the lease automatically for up to 6 months. That might buy me enough time to see the next model year and find something I want more than my current car.
There has been quite a bit of discussion comparing the cost of leasing vs. purchasing. My guess is that if you are a skilled negotiator (major qualifier) there isn't a significant difference. You are paying for the depreciation cost either via leasing fees or in the declining value of the car when you sell it/trade it.