Clarkson terminated from Top Gear
03-14-15, 08:20 AM
#61
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And, just for the record, even though I read the Top Gear magazine, (a British friend of mine gets it from his daughter in London), I'm not necessarily one of Clarkson's big fans on the TV show.....so I am not just looking for excuses to defend him, or get my "Entertainment Kicks" as you referred to in an earlier post. I'm going strictly by what I see as objectivity.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-14-15 at 08:27 AM.
03-14-15, 08:54 AM
#62
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03-14-15, 09:11 AM
#63
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this long rambling article covers a lot of angles including this:
Ryan Thomas, 27, told MailOnline he was working on the set during filming in Newcastle and watched the incident unfold.
He said: ‘I was about 50 yards away and I heard raised voices, a bit of a fracas. There was a bit of a scuffle and I heard some shouting about some sausage rolls.
‘There were a few bits of choice language.
‘Jeremy Clarkson told somebody to “f***off” and people were saying “calm down”, but that was it really.
‘It was a bit like a fight on the bus or in the pub, the same sort of circumstances. It was a melee, there were no clear punches landed. They were surrounded by people. It was a bit of pushing and shoving.
‘Still, I’ve never seen anything like it before. Not to this point.’
Mr Thomas said he didn’t see ‘any punches being thrown’ but said some of the production crew were forced to break up the incident.
He said: ‘He [Clarkson] was pulled away. He looked angry. They took him off set. James May and Richard Hammond were still there and they looked a bit bemused.
‘He [Oisin] looked a bit flabbergasted. He left with another couple members of set.
‘It was over before it started really.’
He said filming was stopped for the day after the incident and added: ‘You’ve got to bear in mind they’re under a lot of stress.’
He said: ‘I was about 50 yards away and I heard raised voices, a bit of a fracas. There was a bit of a scuffle and I heard some shouting about some sausage rolls.
‘There were a few bits of choice language.
‘Jeremy Clarkson told somebody to “f***off” and people were saying “calm down”, but that was it really.
‘It was a bit like a fight on the bus or in the pub, the same sort of circumstances. It was a melee, there were no clear punches landed. They were surrounded by people. It was a bit of pushing and shoving.
‘Still, I’ve never seen anything like it before. Not to this point.’
Mr Thomas said he didn’t see ‘any punches being thrown’ but said some of the production crew were forced to break up the incident.
He said: ‘He [Clarkson] was pulled away. He looked angry. They took him off set. James May and Richard Hammond were still there and they looked a bit bemused.
‘He [Oisin] looked a bit flabbergasted. He left with another couple members of set.
‘It was over before it started really.’
He said filming was stopped for the day after the incident and added: ‘You’ve got to bear in mind they’re under a lot of stress.’
03-14-15, 09:32 AM
#64
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There are several things with this account that don't add up with what else has been said:
1. It didn't happen on set. It happened at a hotel after filming was concluded for the day.
2. James May said he wasn't there when it happened.
1. Filming was already over for the day.
So I wouldn't put a lot of stock in this guy's account.
Nobody's first hand account has included anything about punching anybody. You have to remember these things get blown up in the media.
Yes, the BBC has a policy as all companies do. Thats the point of the hearing, to determine if any of their policies were broken, and what the disciplinary action set forth in the employee handbook is. All you talk about "felonies" etc is meaningless. Nobody is pressing charges and the police are not involved, its an internal matter. I've seen this happen in the bullpen, computer rooms, bars after work, etc.
This sort of thing happens a lot more than you'd think. I've worked in sales for many years and salespeople are high energy, high ego, driven people. When you put many of that sort of people in the same office, essentially competing with each other...this sort of thing happens. They get into a tussle over a client or an account, and it comes to blows.
Its a business. Its fine for you to sit in the background and draw lines in the sand but Clarkson is hugely valuable to the BBC, and there are a lot of people that work for the BBC and work for Top Gear that depend on Clarkson and the show for their livelihoods. Firing him may make that producer feel better...but the pink slip he gets when he's fired because TopGear is defunct isn't going to feel very good.
Mr Thomas said he didn’t see ‘any punches being thrown’ but said some of the production crew were forced to break up the incident.
He said: ‘He [Clarkson] was pulled away. He looked angry. They took him off set. James May and Richard Hammond were still there and they looked a bit bemused.
He said: ‘He [Clarkson] was pulled away. He looked angry. They took him off set. James May and Richard Hammond were still there and they looked a bit bemused.
2. James May said he wasn't there when it happened.
He said filming was stopped for the day after the incident
So I wouldn't put a lot of stock in this guy's account.
Originally Posted by gyrase321
Clarkson's behavior of punching a fellow employee exceeds even beyond mere bullying. It is actual violence. But yeah, Clarkson should be given a pass because his car show makes me giggle.
Yes, the BBC has a policy as all companies do. Thats the point of the hearing, to determine if any of their policies were broken, and what the disciplinary action set forth in the employee handbook is. All you talk about "felonies" etc is meaningless. Nobody is pressing charges and the police are not involved, its an internal matter. I've seen this happen in the bullpen, computer rooms, bars after work, etc.
This sort of thing happens a lot more than you'd think. I've worked in sales for many years and salespeople are high energy, high ego, driven people. When you put many of that sort of people in the same office, essentially competing with each other...this sort of thing happens. They get into a tussle over a client or an account, and it comes to blows.
Its a business. Its fine for you to sit in the background and draw lines in the sand but Clarkson is hugely valuable to the BBC, and there are a lot of people that work for the BBC and work for Top Gear that depend on Clarkson and the show for their livelihoods. Firing him may make that producer feel better...but the pink slip he gets when he's fired because TopGear is defunct isn't going to feel very good.
03-14-15, 10:00 AM
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Again, though, we don't necessarily know who threw the first punch (or shove)....and why. Perhaps Clarkson was merely defending himself when someone else flew of the handle.. All I'm saying is that IMO it's too early to start throwing stones and passing judgement. Right now, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of a significant crime on Clarkson's part, but let's wait and see what the investigation shows...or if there are any lawsuits over the matter.
And, just for the record, even though I read the Top Gear magazine, (a British friend of mine gets it from his daughter in London), I'm not necessarily one of Clarkson's big fans on the TV show.....so I am not just looking for excuses to defend him, or get my "Entertainment Kicks" as you referred to in an earlier post. I'm going strictly by what I see as objectivity.
And, just for the record, even though I read the Top Gear magazine, (a British friend of mine gets it from his daughter in London), I'm not necessarily one of Clarkson's big fans on the TV show.....so I am not just looking for excuses to defend him, or get my "Entertainment Kicks" as you referred to in an earlier post. I'm going strictly by what I see as objectivity.
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-31828184
03-14-15, 10:07 AM
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This sort of thing happens a lot more than you'd think. I've worked in sales for many years and salespeople are high energy, high ego, driven people. When you put many of that sort of people in the same office, essentially competing with each other...this sort of thing happens. They get into a tussle over a client or an account, and it comes to blows.
I.
03-14-15, 10:16 AM
#67
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BBC has the relevant information on the case - more information than you and I have. The fact that it is suspending Clarkson and canceling the rest of the Top Gear season suggests that the BBC has a strong case against Clarkson. It would not jeopardize the earnings from the lucrative show if it was otherwise. This move suggests that the BBC checked all the facts and has already made its judgment. If the infraction was minor, BBC could have easily looked the other way given how much it stands to lose financially by shutting down the Clarkson show. Here's the report from the BBC itself
If they already had the answers they wouldn't have a hearing.
You obviously don't have a lot of experience in human resources or business administration. My wife is a certified HR manager, companies handle these things VERY carefully, and they tend to follow the letter of what the employee handbook says to avoid lawsuits, wrongful termination claims, etc.
Unlike the stupid stuff he's said, they CANNOT look the other way about this for that very reason.
Maybe so, but working in a high stress work environment is not a valid rationalization to physically attack your co-employees. I work in a high stress environment myself (ER physician). I could be wrong, and maybe your sales job is more stressful than mine, but I'm pretty sure that trading fisticuffs with fellow workers is illegal in my workplace.
As a doctor though you understand the effect of stress, exhaustion, and hunger on people's dispositions. You must be able to see how being 1. Exhausted, 2. under a great deal of stress, 3. Starving and finding that theres no food when you walk in the door after a 12 or 15 hour day expecting to find food might make someone behave a little differently than they normally would.
Just imagine, you get of from being on call at the hospital for 20 hours, you haven't eaten, you get to someplace where they were supposed to feed and care for you and you find out there is no hot food when there was supposed to be and no way to get any until the next morning? Would you be happy?
03-14-15, 10:17 AM
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Its a business. Its fine for you to sit in the background and draw lines in the sand but Clarkson is hugely valuable to the BBC, and there are a lot of people that work for the BBC and work for Top Gear that depend on Clarkson and the show for their livelihoods. Firing him may make that producer feel better...but the pink slip he gets when he's fired because TopGear is defunct isn't going to feel very good.
03-14-15, 10:23 AM
#69
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This idea that just because Clarkson is financially valuable to BBC that he should somehow be exempt from the rules that govern everyone else is obscene. BBC is to be lauded for putting fairness above its own economic interests. If it didn't do so, the BBC (which is a government-owned entity supported by taxes) would appear to be a travesty. What's next: allow a rapist to continue starring in a show as long as he rakes in the dough for the company?
If the BBC wants to fire Clarkson for this, they will. He will be hired by a competitor instantly...and the loser there is:
1. The BBC
2. The employees of the BBC and the crew of Top Gear
3. The viewer, and this is only breifly
Note that nowhere on that list is Jeremy Clarkson. So how can firing him be seen as a punishment?
I think if you ask the producer involved if he would want Clarkson fired...he'd say no...which is why it was Clarkson who informed the BBC about this, not him. He wants to stay employed and he realizes no Clarkson, likely no May or Hammond...no Top Gear. Watch the US Top Gear if you want to see the show with different hosts...it sucks...and nobody watches.
If I were Clarkson, I think I would want to move on from the BBC, assuming that May and Hammond were open to the idea of going to a competitor and working on a show together. The three of them do genuinely like each other, and their chemistry is some of the best I've ever seen on TV. Going without them is a risk. He will do much better at a private broadcast company where people will be more interested in supporting him and who he is, what he does, vs profiting from him and then hanging him out to dry when someone complains.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-14-15 at 10:29 AM.
03-14-15, 10:27 AM
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Who are these people clamoring Clarkson to be reinstated? 700,000 people actually sign a petition to reinstate someone who physically attacked a co-worker....just so they can continue to get their laughs?
03-14-15, 10:35 AM
#71
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Its actually nearly 900,000 people now. I'm one. I like the show, its a great show. So he wasn't at his best and he got into a scuffle with a producer ("physically attacked" are your words, not one first hand account describes it that way), these things aren't uncommon...they happen. He doesn't have a history of these sorts of things happening, its not like we've ever heard of a situation like this happening before...in the 13 years this version of TopGear has been produced, or the 15 years he was on Top Gear before it was reinvented. One altercation in 28 years and you think the guy should be fired automatically damn all the other consequences at a cost of tens of millions of dollars and potentially hundreds of other people's jobs? Thats whats stupid.
03-14-15, 10:35 AM
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You're taking this too extremes here. To equate someone "being a rapist" to having two people get into a yelling and shoving match is frankly disrespectful to those that have been the victim of a rapist. I'm a very nice guy, everybody who knows me would say so. I have though at times lost my temper with people and behaved towards them in a way that I later regretted. We all have. We need to maintain some perspective here.
If the BBC wants to fire Clarkson for this, they will. He will be hired by a competitor instantly...and the loser there is:
1. The BBC
2. The employees of the BBC and the crew of Top Gear
3. The viewer, and this is only breifly
Note that nowhere on that list is Jeremy Clarkson. So how can firing him be seen as a punishment?
I think if you ask the producer involved if he would want Clarkson fired...he'd say no...which is why it was Clarkson who informed the BBC about this, not him. He wants to stay employed and he realizes no Clarkson, likely no May or Hammond...no Top Gear. Watch the US Top Gear if you want to see the show with different hosts...it sucks...and nobody watches.
If the BBC wants to fire Clarkson for this, they will. He will be hired by a competitor instantly...and the loser there is:
1. The BBC
2. The employees of the BBC and the crew of Top Gear
3. The viewer, and this is only breifly
Note that nowhere on that list is Jeremy Clarkson. So how can firing him be seen as a punishment?
I think if you ask the producer involved if he would want Clarkson fired...he'd say no...which is why it was Clarkson who informed the BBC about this, not him. He wants to stay employed and he realizes no Clarkson, likely no May or Hammond...no Top Gear. Watch the US Top Gear if you want to see the show with different hosts...it sucks...and nobody watches.
03-14-15, 10:38 AM
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Herd mentality. In this case, the herd probably didn't consider the implications of the incident. All they wanted is their entertainment fix not be disrupted. The lowest common denominator.
03-14-15, 10:43 AM
#74
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Which is what entertainers and comedians do
Again, your words not those of anybody who saw it happen.
He wasn't thinking anything. Come on...you're a doctor...you have a little more insight into how people react than this. He was exhausted, hungry, stressed out...and he reacted to a situation in a way that he shouldn't have and that in hindsight he wishes he hadn't. We have ALL been there, and anybody who says they haven't is lying. The producer was tired, hungry, and stressed out too. I'm sure he didn't just roll up in a ball and start crying.
Sometimes people don't analyze every variable of a situation before they react...they just react. Thats human nature. Yes there are consequences for our actions, but we have to make sure that those consequences aren't a gross overreaction to the reality of what has occurred. Throwing tens of millions of dollars away and putting the livelihoods of 100s of people at risk is a gross overreaction IMHO.
He didn't shoot the guy, he didn't beat the guy to a pulp, he didn't stab the guy...he yelled at the guy and the two of them got into little shoving and pushing and it got broken up. It happens all the time.
Haven't fired him yet. Like I said...he will be hired by somebody instantly. The BBC is of no value to Clarkson, he's of enormous value to them.
The BBC will have their principles, and it will have cost them an enormous sum of money. The producer might have his satisfaction, and he can enjoy it on the unemployment line when he gets laid off when Top Gear goes belly up. Thats reality.
When you have something that works and everybody is being fulfilled and making money...you find ways to continue doing whats working...not find ways to shut it down.
I have no problem with his jokes and racial slurs, but he upped the ante by physically attacking a co-worker.
He must have thought that he is not expendable since he brings in so much money for BBC. He must have thought he can do anything he wants.
Sometimes people don't analyze every variable of a situation before they react...they just react. Thats human nature. Yes there are consequences for our actions, but we have to make sure that those consequences aren't a gross overreaction to the reality of what has occurred. Throwing tens of millions of dollars away and putting the livelihoods of 100s of people at risk is a gross overreaction IMHO.
He didn't shoot the guy, he didn't beat the guy to a pulp, he didn't stab the guy...he yelled at the guy and the two of them got into little shoving and pushing and it got broken up. It happens all the time.
By firing him, the BBC is giving the signal that he is not expendable, and there is a limit to his value to the company. It also sends the signal to Clarkson imitators that there is a price to pay for such boorish behavior. The BBC is saying that it will not be an enabler of such behavior, regardless of the financial cost to itself.
The BBC will have their principles, and it will have cost them an enormous sum of money. The producer might have his satisfaction, and he can enjoy it on the unemployment line when he gets laid off when Top Gear goes belly up. Thats reality.
When you have something that works and everybody is being fulfilled and making money...you find ways to continue doing whats working...not find ways to shut it down.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-14-15 at 10:48 AM.
