Toys4RJill

Its not respectable in any way. Its no Lexus and it has no brand prestige which is why we love Lexus.

Fizzboy7

There's a chunk of people out there who are not car enthusiasts, do not want to advertise they are rich or have money, but would still appreciate having a spacious, comfortable car with high technology and nifty conveniences. Many of these people are business men and women, commuters, retirees, etc. We here on this enthusiast website are the opposite of that, and mostly judge cars for more passionate reasons.

mmarshall

There are many different types of car enthusiasts...not just the stereotype power and handling enthusiast that is symbolized by much of the auto press and magazines like Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend, Automobile, etc....

"Passion" in auto-speak, does not necessarily mean fast driving, space-age styling, or having everything sport-oriented. I, for one, would certainly consider myself an "enthusiast" (consider my 50,000+ CL posts)..but I enjoy driving, reviewing, and talking about virtually anything on wheels......not just so-called "enthusiast" vehicles like sport-sedans, performance cars, sport-cars, exotics, etc.....That's why my logo says "Let's Talk Cars" instead of "Let's Talk Performance Cars".

tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

three years this month with my 2012 Kia Optima Turbo and Zero issues. I agree it's not as refined as other cars but I bought it for the gas mileage and point A to point B driving. Now our 2012 Kia Sorento I've had to replace the battery which was frustrating because it was only 3 years old.

Toys4RJill

Unbelievable, even Toyota's Land Cruiser outsells those two...COMBINED.

mmarshall

Quite believable. The K900 has only been on the American market a couple of months. The Land Cruiser has been in the American market 50 years.....since the 1960s.

mmarshall

Congratulations. Is yours an SX or EX turbo? I think they still offered the EX turbo back then.

Why buy the turbo for gas mileage, though?.....I don't quite follow. On the EPA figures, the non-turbo versions have about 2 or 3 better MPG. If you want the turbo's stronger power, then fine.

A little on the low side of battery life, but not unusual. Batteries, on average, depending on a number of factors, last anywhere from three to seven years.

Mr. Burns

There is no reason the K900 will be reliable either, they have never made one before. Anything from the plastics inside to the electronics to the suspension components to the power-train is suspect. Even if most of it is very likely reverse engineered work based on what others have done.

Fake richers buying used would still gravitate to the 7ers, the S-classes, and the LSes. The K900 is the opposite of fake-rich, it's fake-poor.

They would laugh if you called Kia a luxury badge. It's not that subjective at all.

If anyone wants a "less expensive LS460" they can just buy a used one. But a K900 is not a "less-expensive LS460", sure it emulates the LS460 in a lot of parameters, but it lacks the fundamentals for why people buy LS460s or trust the LS nameplate. It's why the LS outsold the K900 8 to 1 last year and the LS is in its second-last model year while the K900 is marketed as brand new.

And before people bring in the 1G LS400 and say "well they said that about the S-class", the LS400 actually introduced its own unique parameters for which people would buy one over an S-class (i.e. superior reliability, service, and refinement for a lower price). The K900 offers no unique advantages aside from price. Price alone is not an adequate leg to stand on in this segment - which is evident again from sales numbers. The K900 is the cheapest car in the segment.


Who said this about Lexus? Toyota back in those days was still a respected nameplate, it was revered for its refinement and build quality. A more expensive Toyota was not necessarily a bad thing in terms of image. But even still the separate Lexus brand showed that even with Toyota, a premium badge is still required to compete in the long term.

Kia on the other hand has a bottom of the barrel mainstream brand image. A more expensive car with a bottom-of-the-barrel mainstream brand image is not a good place to be product wise.

The K900 went on sale in March of 2014, so it has been a lot more than "a couple of months". Monthly sales quickly tapered off to double digits in September (when they sold just 56 units).

This is for a RWD V8 car with a price tag in the range of what the old Acura RL used to cost. The V6 FWD Acura RL was axed when it was posting similar numbers and it was no doubt a much more profitable vehicle for Acura.

SW17LS

If you don't thhink people ever laughed at a Lexus when they first came out, youtube some of the late night monologues about Lexus Lol.

Mr. Burns

I'm not saying they didn't laugh, but Toyota's image then was much much much better than Kia's image even today.

So if they laughed at Toyota, god help Kia.

Still in 10 years or by the late 90s Lexus had cultivated a very respectable image for itself. The Equus has still failed to do that in almost as long and the K900 will likely not live that long at this rate in the US market.

But we need to remember that these cars are primarily Korean market vehicles that have been transplanted for the US market for ****s and giggles (feel the crowd sort of thing). They are not as serious as entries as the LS400 or Lexus was. That project was focused on the US market and focused on becoming a long term competitor in the lux segments.

mmarshall

That's also one reason why both cars are so comfort-oriented. Not only were they first developed and sold in South Korea, but Koreans generally like soft-riding cars that aren't tossed up and down by bumps on rough roads, and they aren't terribly concerned about sharp handling. Hyundai tried making the 1Gen Genesis a borderline sport-sedan with a firm ride, but the (noticeably) smoother-riding 2Gen version seems to be getting better reviews. I myself, like the Koreans, generally prefer a smooth ride...but not to the point of really excessive floatness. I remember test-driving a 90s-vintage Buick LeSabre and Roadmaster that were both so soft, understeered so much, and had so much body-lean, that I thought they were borderline dangerous on sharply winding two-lane roads.

Toys4RJill

I never laughed at Lexus, but I am sure laughing at KIA right now.

mmarshall

Good point, SW. And, Kia's recent success is due to the fact that many intelligent and savvy shoppers are no longer laughing at them. Those that do are living in the past.

LexBob2

Kia and Hyundai are both mainstream volume brands, accepted by consumers, and aren't going away. Maybe a model or two might not make it in NA but that's about it.

Toys4RJill

I would say Tier 2 volume brand, not exactly up there with Toyota, Chevrolet, or Ford. The Genesis overall as a whole has been great, it still has not really been accepted as a true luxury car, its more like a premium car.