January 2015 Sales Thread
02-07-15, 04:40 PM
#46
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Perception really is the most important factor in affecting peoples' car buying decisions. I dont think there is anything wrong with the Mazda per se, but you dont see it on the road too often, many non car enthusiasts probably dont know it exists. People just go straight to the Camry or Accord without thinking. Its brand and model perception. The GS suffers from the same problem.
02-07-15, 06:14 PM
#47
Lexus Test Driver
What insight, figures do you have about Mazda's financials that lead you to believe that their current sales can't support the company's operating costs or their R&D costs? I haven't seen a shortage of new product or R&D coming out of Mazda...so something must be working...Completely different than Suzuki, Saab or Mitsubishi.
You say "eventually Mazda needs a bigger company to partner with"...you need to do a little more reading into Mazda's history. Mazda had a 30 year long partnership with Ford (pretty big I think, this "Ford" outfit). Since the 90s Ford actually had a controlling interest in Mazda. Ford decided during the financial meltdown that they were interested in potentially selling some of or all of their stake in Mazda, Mazda bought about 1/3rd of that stake back themselves. Ford still owns a portion of Mazda, just not a controlling interest.
Mazda is owned by a myriad of shareholders....and their sales are up overall, not down. So the argument "that the need volume to succeed" doesn't really hold water...since they have more volume now than they've had here.
You say "eventually Mazda needs a bigger company to partner with"...you need to do a little more reading into Mazda's history. Mazda had a 30 year long partnership with Ford (pretty big I think, this "Ford" outfit). Since the 90s Ford actually had a controlling interest in Mazda. Ford decided during the financial meltdown that they were interested in potentially selling some of or all of their stake in Mazda, Mazda bought about 1/3rd of that stake back themselves. Ford still owns a portion of Mazda, just not a controlling interest.
Mazda is owned by a myriad of shareholders....and their sales are up overall, not down. So the argument "that the need volume to succeed" doesn't really hold water...since they have more volume now than they've had here.
Even exotic carmakers like Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche need X amount of volume to be viable.
Please read this article:
http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...emplate=mobile
I think ur the one that should do some more reading especially about how economies of scale work.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 02-07-15 at 06:22 PM.
02-07-15, 09:22 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
New regulations are making life very expensive for automakers therefore u see so many partnerships to share in R&D costs.
Even exotic carmakers like Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche need X amount of volume to be viable.
Please read this article:
http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...emplate=mobile
Even exotic carmakers like Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche need X amount of volume to be viable.
Please read this article:
http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...emplate=mobile
Again, what insight do you have into Mazda's financials specifically that would lend any weight to your statement that they are in danger of no longer being able to operate due to their volume? Otherwise its just 100% hot air.
Did you read the article you quoted? It discusses Mazda being on an upswing, and them doubling down the resources that they do have towards what has been successful. Sales are up, profitable for the first time in years, incentives are down, average transaction prices are up.
Lets pull out some excerpts:
When Kogai, 60, took office in June 2013, he inherited a company that had just recorded its first annual profit in five years.
In many ways, today's Mazda looks stronger than ever. It is booking record profits, U.S. sales are outpacing the industry's and it has rebalanced its global production footprint with a new plant in Mexico. Incentives are down; transaction prices are up.
But Kogai's challenge is keeping that momentum with a tight lineup and preparing future products on a shoestring budget.
In many ways, today's Mazda looks stronger than ever. It is booking record profits, U.S. sales are outpacing the industry's and it has rebalanced its global production footprint with a new plant in Mexico. Incentives are down; transaction prices are up.
But Kogai's challenge is keeping that momentum with a tight lineup and preparing future products on a shoestring budget.
Kogai says his top immediate priority is achieving quality sales, not just higher volumes. Discipline will be key: He favors a more focused core lineup over flashy cars such as the RX-8, and lower incentives. So far, his strategy has been working.[
Take the redesigned Mazda3 compact. U.S. sales fell 2 percent to 87,505 units through October. But Mazda says its share of retail, nonfleet sales in the compact segment is actually up.
Average incentives on the Mazda3 fell by half to $1,203 in the first nine months from the year-earlier period, according to TrueCar Inc. By contrast, average incentives for the entire compact segment rose 24 percent to $2,048.
Take the redesigned Mazda3 compact. U.S. sales fell 2 percent to 87,505 units through October. But Mazda says its share of retail, nonfleet sales in the compact segment is actually up.
Average incentives on the Mazda3 fell by half to $1,203 in the first nine months from the year-earlier period, according to TrueCar Inc. By contrast, average incentives for the entire compact segment rose 24 percent to $2,048.
Mazda's incentives as a brand have been in reverse since 2011, said Edmunds.com analyst Jonathan Mandanici. And average transaction prices are up 10 percent so far in 2014 vs. 2012.
"We're holding down incentives, without pursuing volume," Kogai said. "The challenge for us now is how we can sustain this."
Kogai has scaled back his forecast that Mazda's U.S. sales could hit a record approaching 400,000 vehicles in the fiscal year ending March 31, 2016. Now he says he doesn't consider that figure "an absolute target," though he'd like to get there "eventually."
Maintaining discipline also means not being tempted into ego entries, such as a revived RX sports car, he said.
"We're holding down incentives, without pursuing volume," Kogai said. "The challenge for us now is how we can sustain this."
Kogai has scaled back his forecast that Mazda's U.S. sales could hit a record approaching 400,000 vehicles in the fiscal year ending March 31, 2016. Now he says he doesn't consider that figure "an absolute target," though he'd like to get there "eventually."
Maintaining discipline also means not being tempted into ego entries, such as a revived RX sports car, he said.
So again I will ask, what information do you have that shows Mazda's volume is impacting its ability to remain operational?
02-07-15, 10:00 PM
#49
Lexus Test Driver
My point was that Mazda already has such a partnership, and has for decades. You just didn't realize that.
Again, what insight do you have into Mazda's financials specifically that would lend any weight to your statement that they are in danger of no longer being able to operate due to their volume? Otherwise its just 100% hot air.
Again, what insight do you have into Mazda's financials specifically that would lend any weight to your statement that they are in danger of no longer being able to operate due to their volume? Otherwise its just 100% hot air.
You highlighted certain things in the article to your benefit. I can do the same:
HIROSHIMA, Japan -- Masamichi Kogai, Mazda Motor Corp.'s cost-conscious CEO, says he has no plans to revive the discontinued RX sports car series. Instead, he wants to plow limited resources into improving the Skyactiv technologies that set the brand's bread-and-butter vehicles apart from the competition.
The move underscores the fragile state of Mazda's recovery and the challenge the CEO faces in keeping products competitive with the first round of Skyactiv redesigns already halfway over.
Mazda's seven-vehicle lineup is almost stretched to its max, Kogai said. It's time to focus on a new generation of improvements.
"It's difficult for us at present to further expand our lineup," Kogai told Automotive News at the company's headquarters here. "The company is still in the process of improving its financial structure. We want to focus our limited resources on the Skyactiv products that we have today."
Every nameplate except the CX-9 crossover and Mazda5 minivan has received a Skyactiv makeover. Skyactiv is the name Mazda gave to a variety of technologies behind a more efficient powertrain, lightweight body and sportier chassis.
The Skyactiv Mazda2 has yet to reach the U.S. but is on sale in Japan. The overhauled MX-5 Miata roadster was unveiled this year with a 2015 U.S. launch date. And a new CX-3 subcompact crossover based on the Mazda2 will debut this month at the Los Angeles Auto Show.
The big question for Kogai: What next? The small, export-reliant company is under pressure to meet increasingly stringent emissions standards around the world. But it lacks the deep r&d coffers of Japanese rivals Toyota Motor Corp., Nissan Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co.
When Kogai, 60, took office in June 2013, he inherited a company that had just recorded its first annual profit in five years.
In many ways, today's Mazda looks stronger than ever. It is booking record profits, U.S. sales are outpacing the industry's and it has rebalanced its global production footprint with a new plant in Mexico. Incentives are down; transaction prices are up.
The move underscores the fragile state of Mazda's recovery and the challenge the CEO faces in keeping products competitive with the first round of Skyactiv redesigns already halfway over.
Mazda's seven-vehicle lineup is almost stretched to its max, Kogai said. It's time to focus on a new generation of improvements.
"It's difficult for us at present to further expand our lineup," Kogai told Automotive News at the company's headquarters here. "The company is still in the process of improving its financial structure. We want to focus our limited resources on the Skyactiv products that we have today."
Every nameplate except the CX-9 crossover and Mazda5 minivan has received a Skyactiv makeover. Skyactiv is the name Mazda gave to a variety of technologies behind a more efficient powertrain, lightweight body and sportier chassis.
The Skyactiv Mazda2 has yet to reach the U.S. but is on sale in Japan. The overhauled MX-5 Miata roadster was unveiled this year with a 2015 U.S. launch date. And a new CX-3 subcompact crossover based on the Mazda2 will debut this month at the Los Angeles Auto Show.
The big question for Kogai: What next? The small, export-reliant company is under pressure to meet increasingly stringent emissions standards around the world. But it lacks the deep r&d coffers of Japanese rivals Toyota Motor Corp., Nissan Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co.
When Kogai, 60, took office in June 2013, he inherited a company that had just recorded its first annual profit in five years.
In many ways, today's Mazda looks stronger than ever. It is booking record profits, U.S. sales are outpacing the industry's and it has rebalanced its global production footprint with a new plant in Mexico. Incentives are down; transaction prices are up.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 02-07-15 at 10:10 PM.
02-07-15, 10:12 PM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-maz...eparation.html
No longer sharing platforms but the relationship is still there.
You highlighted certain things in the article to your benefit. I can do the same:
I ask again, snow some evidence that Mazdas volume is contributing to an inability for them to continue with their operations. The article you posted actually says the exact opposite.
A company doesn't have to be a big company to operate and be successful in the market, depending on that company's definition of success.
02-07-15, 11:27 PM
#51
Lexus Test Driver
You're actually incorrect. Ford still has a 3.5% stake in Mazda, Certainly not a large percentage remaining from their once 30%+ stake, but there's still a stake.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-maz...eparation.html
No longer sharing platforms but the relationship is still there.
You can highlight whatever you want, this is still a positive article about Mazda, and one that directly addresses and disputes your point about volume.
I ask again, snow some evidence that Mazdas volume is contributing to an inability for them to continue with their operations. The article you posted actually says the exact opposite.
A company doesn't have to be a big company to operate and be successful in the market, depending on that company's definition of success.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-maz...eparation.html
No longer sharing platforms but the relationship is still there.
You can highlight whatever you want, this is still a positive article about Mazda, and one that directly addresses and disputes your point about volume.
I ask again, snow some evidence that Mazdas volume is contributing to an inability for them to continue with their operations. The article you posted actually says the exact opposite.
A company doesn't have to be a big company to operate and be successful in the market, depending on that company's definition of success.
The article headline is "Mazda's next big challenge: Keep zoom-zooming on a shoestring budget"
Enough said.
Evidence = There is a reason there is massive consolidation in the industry, small companies like Mazda, Mitsu, etc will not be able to survive on their own as new safety and fuel regulations make R&D costs way too high to deliver a competitive product. Larger companies have larger economies of scale to spread costs ie VW Group, Toyota, GM, Ford, Renault/Nissan, Fiat/Chrysler.
Even MB is sharing R&D costs with Renault/Nissan on engines and platforms
Toyota with BMW and Subaru on sportscars
This is simple economics here.......
Doom-Doom? Why Mazda Needs a Savior
Its profits are up and its products are great. So what gives?
Its profits are up and its products are great. So what gives?
02-08-15, 05:59 AM
#52
Yen is still 20% off its highest level in the 90's, despite what media is reporting... so quite likely it wont go anywhere, especially with USD being so strong right now...
As to the Mazda, apperantly they are funding expansion of product lines without any issues and their profits are pretty good, GM level actually, while selling 8x less cars and funding major new products, and while their sales in Japan are doing much worse due to new taxes.
People forget that a lot of development in vehicles is done by 3rd party suppliers...
All in all, Mazda is doing good... and with the lineup they have, they should be doing even better.
As to the Mazda, apperantly they are funding expansion of product lines without any issues and their profits are pretty good, GM level actually, while selling 8x less cars and funding major new products, and while their sales in Japan are doing much worse due to new taxes.
People forget that a lot of development in vehicles is done by 3rd party suppliers...
All in all, Mazda is doing good... and with the lineup they have, they should be doing even better.
02-08-15, 02:10 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
You clearly just read the headline when you posted the article, because as I've demonstrated the article refutes much of your position.
Your C&D article (which I read nearly 2 years ago when it was published) clearly lays it out, Mazdas problem is not their US lineup, its their lineups of small cars elsewhere in the world that is far less compelling. In any event...that was 2 years ago. Your first article is more relevant.
02-08-15, 05:00 PM
#54
Because headlines tell the whole story. Just because a company may have a "shoestring budget" doesn't mean they're in danger of not being able to operate under their current sales volume. Your point was that current US sales volume needs to be higher in order for them to continue operating...and you STILL have not shown us any proof to back that statement up.
You clearly just read the headline when you posted the article, because as I've demonstrated the article refutes much of your position.
Your C&D article (which I read nearly 2 years ago when it was published) clearly lays it out, Mazdas problem is not their US lineup, its their lineups of small cars elsewhere in the world that is far less compelling. In any event...that was 2 years ago. Your first article is more relevant.
You clearly just read the headline when you posted the article, because as I've demonstrated the article refutes much of your position.
Your C&D article (which I read nearly 2 years ago when it was published) clearly lays it out, Mazdas problem is not their US lineup, its their lineups of small cars elsewhere in the world that is far less compelling. In any event...that was 2 years ago. Your first article is more relevant.
Otherwise it is silly to talk about small budget in Mazda when they have a ton of vehicles, most of them brand new... Mazda was never stronger product wise - 2, 3, 6, Miata, Mazda 5, CX-3, CX-5, CX-9, BT-50.
They are full lineup producers. They dont lack any models and they dont lack engines.
02-08-15, 05:58 PM
#55
Lexus Test Driver
dunno, I think US is their "biggest problem" because they should do so much better in the US.
Otherwise it is silly to talk about small budget in Mazda when they have a ton of vehicles, most of them brand new... Mazda was never stronger product wise - 2, 3, 6, Miata, Mazda 5, CX-3, CX-5, CX-9, BT-50.
They are full lineup producers. They dont lack any models and they dont lack engines.
Otherwise it is silly to talk about small budget in Mazda when they have a ton of vehicles, most of them brand new... Mazda was never stronger product wise - 2, 3, 6, Miata, Mazda 5, CX-3, CX-5, CX-9, BT-50.
They are full lineup producers. They dont lack any models and they dont lack engines.
In US most ppl love Toyota and Honda mostly bec of reliability and very high resale value, plus Mazda prob is probably not discounting their cars as much or providing low lease offers to compete.
They need to grow sales and increase market share to generate enough profits to invest in future tech especially hybrids and electrics- of which they have none i believe. The new MPG laws in US and Europe are going to be tough to meet with only petrol engines.
Considering they were in the red for many years and just recently showed profits - imo they need a larger partner to share platforms and R&D costs.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 02-08-15 at 06:08 PM.
02-08-15, 06:41 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
ok guys, i think we've explored mazda's strengths and weaknesses enough.
thanks.
thanks.
02-16-15, 09:35 PM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
there's times you can't underestimate the buying public. 
02-17-15, 11:04 AM
#59
Super Moderator
The RX for Lexus is like the 3 series for BMW and the E class for Mercedes, their names are so entrenched in their segment that people will flock to buy them nomatter what . Takes a LONG time to change perception and buying habits once they are established.
02-17-15, 01:42 PM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
^^^ agreed. 
rx has a WELL deserved reputation!
hope they don't mess with the formula too much now that the nx is out there.
in my recent purchase i didn't want 3 rows, but more models were going that way, but didn't want too small a 2 row one either. my grand cherokee is shorter than my explorer, but not much less room because the shorter hood is part of the shorter length.
rx has a WELL deserved reputation!
hope they don't mess with the formula too much now that the nx is out there.
in my recent purchase i didn't want 3 rows, but more models were going that way, but didn't want too small a 2 row one either. my grand cherokee is shorter than my explorer, but not much less room because the shorter hood is part of the shorter length.
