Trek

Had my 4GS in for 15K service yesterday. While waiting I took a look at two models I had only seen on the Internet, the RC-F, and the NX. I had panned both of them. After seeing them I changed my mind. I like them!

The RC-F had that special edition glittery blue paint. It was really pretty. But it was a tight fit sitting inside. The driver's seat felt snug, almost too snug, and the two rear seats must be there as a joke. Still, I liked the looks of the car. I suppose 4.4 to 60 is fast enough, but what's up with a snow button on a RC-F? That's a joke, right?

Then I took a good look at the NSX. I've turned 180 on this vehicle. I really like it. Luxury interior, enough HP to get the job done. A real Lexus. What I don't get is the F version of this particular vehicle. It's stupid.

I have a problem with all of the F Sport versions of different models including the GS FSport. It's the same friggin' engine! It might be one-tenth of a second quicker to 60, if that. It is the exact same engine! The slightly different front end is just cosmetic and a matter of taste but there is nothing special about the engine.

This seems like a money-making scheme from Lexus. My non-F Sport is just as fast on the highway as an F Sport, so why pay extra money for the F Sport? Add another 50-60 HP to the F Sport and you've got something worth buying.

As far as the new GS F goes (without the "sport") it is priced way too high. Much faster lux sedans can be had for the same price. So at the price point for the new "F" the car is underpowered. Drop the price 8-10 grand and they'll hit the sweet spot where power and price vs the competition makes sense.

Lexus needs to get its act together.

obturator

I agree F sport is a money making scheme. We (present company included) all fall for it because we like the trim line (well, you do get AVS). You can thank Audi for it with the S line that started it all (except Audi gave you more power). M sport and AMG sport (?) followed suit but realized you don't need to include more power. People will just eat it up if it just made the car look cooler. Lexus just got into the game late. These trim lines are a huge money maker for these auto manufacturers. Slap some go fast looking parts on and increase the price from the base model and you have a hit. The main ///M, AMG, RS, V are not necessarily produced to make huge profits but to promote these trim lines where most of the sales are. Profits from these trim line models allow for funding for R&D on the halo models. Profits from halo cars are usually too low to support future R&D. These cars are too expensive for the majority of buyers. That's why I feel F is too important for Lexus to put out a half baked product in the GSF. Many here disagree and say you don't need over 500hp. Price it right and it will sell (I agree). But, that's not the point. Well, to me it isn't. Branding of the F is more important in the long term. Build your reputation and there will be a trickle down effect, if you will. This has been debated ad nauseum in the GSF thread. Some say "Lexus is doing their own thing," all while copying the Germans with their trim lines.

SW17LS

Its just a sport package. Every manufacturer offers a sport package, and very rarely does it come with any engine upgrades. BMW offers M Sport, Mercedes offers the AMG Sport package, Audi offers the S line packages. All appearance and suspension, no engine enhancement.

Its not about being faster, being faster is just a small part of what makes a car "sportier". The F Sport models have a sportier look, sportier suspensions etc. Its not my thing, but I can understand why its other people's thing.

Just because something doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean its not worthwhile. You are not the only buyer. Obviously...people buy the F Sports look around.

Of course its a money making scheme. Designing and selling cars is a money making scheme. Toyota/Lexus exists to make money...thats why business exists.

Why pay extra you get sportier wheels, sportier trim, stiffer sport suspension tuning, and additional options and features. If you want to go faster you have the full F models. I paid more than an F Sport for my Luxury package. Why did I do that? No more power. Because I don't want more power I wanted the additional quality and comfort features in the luxury package. Why is that different?

Hilarious you say its priced too high when they haven't even hinted as to what the price will be LOL.

As to "without the sport" the thing has a sport tuned adaptive suspension, it has a standard torque vectoring differential, it has a powerful V8 engine. it has huge 6 piston brembo slotted brakes, it has a specially reinforced chassis. Thats "not sport"?

Sales are growing and growing year after year. So, what do they need to do to get their act together, stop doing things *you* think are stupid even though they translate into sales success for their company?

Options and choices are a good thing. For a customer who doesn't see value in the luxury or F Sport packages they have a well equipped very well priced premium model like you have. For somebody who wants additional luxury features they have a luxury package that is still a good value, and for somebody that wants a sportier look and feel inside and out, they have a still very good value F Sport package.

Sylvan

iTrader: (6)

why would the snow button be a joke, I drive my ISF in the winter. I looked at the RCF and if I bought it I would also drive it in the snow. I am planning to get the GSF I still haven't decide if I will get this years model or wait a year...the pending economic recession has me hesitant to by one in the spring.

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

Maybe you should do more research and test drive the F-sport. Theres a difference in the handling and ride of the GS F-sport that makes it the best handling midsize sports sedan in the category. My F-sport outmaneuvers my 2012 BMW 5 series I had prior to it. Its a great package. Yes I agree it needs a bigger engine but the whole package is very good on top of the base GS. I find the base GS a little numb and too much body roll for me compared to the F-sport. Do you know what the snow button is for???? I use it a bit during the winter time. Maybe you don't need it where you live but please don't blast something because you have no need for it. I am not sure if you are well educated in the car features and decide to rant and complain about something you are not fully aware about. All you did was blast the engine and not even mention the other features that F-sport has

PirelliRC

I agree with you that the F sport has a more racey / stiffer / planted ride than thr base model due to the sport suspension, however it is not a "better handling car than the base model". My buddy has the F sport and ive driven it hard a lot. And besides the stance and stiffer suspension, the handling is exactly the same. The base model is not numb what so ever.

As a dealer you must offer a lot of choices to your consumers, and as you can tell a lot of people go for the F Sports, so Lexus must be doing something right. I went with a base model myself but F Sport is absolutely worth it if you were buying the vehicle. Just the wheels and front bumper and grill are worth the extra 4-5k. Not to mentiom the suspension which is great on the F Sport. So theres quite a difference for really not much money. When my lease is getting close on this one, I thinking about flipping it to a buy a on 2015 GS 450h F Sport

Rexus300

iTrader: (1)

Maybe not numb but a tad more isolated. Also the handling (steering feel and feedback is same) but the body is more planted and more sharper on the turns.

SW17LS

This statement doesn't make any sense. You say the F Sport has a more racy/stiffer/planted ride...yet doesn't handle better. This is illogical. The racy/stiffer/planted ride is precisely why it handles better.

Thats like saying something gives off more light but it isn't brighter. Doesn't make sense.

The addition of the AVS and Sport + is the biggest plus for the F Sport and the Luxury over the base model. In Sport + there is a SIGNIFICANT handling benefit over the base car.

PirelliRC

If you have a lot of experience driving cars, and sports car than you would know that the dynamics and suspension that come in the base model of the GS are more than adequate to handle turns with composure. Theres no question that the F Sport is a different beast all in its own right, but to say it "handles better" is being misleading, because i can bet money (and i will) that i would take my GS RWD through a track faster than you would take the F Sport through a track. Then if that lets say might happen then whos car would have the better handling ? You have to be subjective not objective. The GS is not a Camry.

Its about accounting for over / under steer with the proper responses and acceleration to go into the turn smooth and not lose your grip to the road. The GS is more can capable of doing this, it just takes a good driver as well. There unquestionably a big difference but its not as big as you are describing it. You making it seem like the GS and the GS F sport are like a 550i and a M5.

dchar

I have to agree with the others that the F-sport handles better than the base GS. Stiffer suspension will give you more confidence to push the car harder. The F-sport also has staggered wheel setup and bigger wheels, giving it more grip. Like you said, grip is important. I didn't see SW13GS making the F-sport seem like an F. The base GS does handle very well, but not as well as the F-sport. I also love the exterior styling on the F-sport more and the ability to get Cabernet leather.

MEAHT

iTrader: (1)

F-Sport:

-Aggressive Front Grill
-Bigger, more aggressive styled wheels
-Sport Tuned suspension specifically for performance
-Rear Spoiler
-Bigger Brakes
-F-Sport Steering wheel with pronounced indents at 9 and 3 positions
-Cabernet Interior

Its up to you the buyer to decide if this is worth an extra $5,690.

MEAHT

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

/rant

Everyone has a subjective opinion, but considering the success of the Spindle and the ever expanding F-Sport line and climbing sales. They're doing just fine.

rijc99

While the F Sport package doesn't come with more power, the stuff it does come with makes it worth it in my book. The adjustable shocks and steering rack when placed in Sport+ mode makes the car way more enjoyable to drive when I'm pushing it. The styling features, both interior and exterior, not to mention the up sized staggered wheels/tire combo makes the package seem extremely reasonable.

I don't think I would have gone with a GS if it didn't have the F Sport exterior. In my opinion, the front end of a non F Sport model seems pedestrian. I do like how the standard rear deck look though.

*Oh, and yes... the big brakes are amazing.

SW17LS

The base GS has a very good suspension...I'm not saying it doesn't but I'm saying the F Sport and the Luxury model have better suspensions.

Its not about driving cars like this through tracks and recording times. Very few people buy a GS and run it through a track. Its about how the cars feel on the road. The F Sport feels more planted, more stable, firmer and more nimble...this is by your own admission. These things are better than less planted, less stable, softer and less nimble. Hence what I said...you saying the F Sport is these things over the base car yet "doesn't handle better" makes no sense.

As for whether you or I would drive the cars through a track faster, you're basically telling me you're a better driver than I am...not that one car is a better handling car than the other. You can put your ho-haa back in your pants and stop waving it at me, I'm unimpressed.

I never said anything of the sort...all I said was the F Sport handles better. You said "there is unquestionably a big difference"...so WTF are we even talking about? Just because the F Sport handles better doesn't mean the base car handles poorly. Don't be so defensive. Guess what? The GS-F will handle even better than the F Sport.

I8ABMR

The main thing that blows my mind about F Sport is that the owners think their cars are real F cars or simply do not know the difference . Its insane that people within the brand dont even know the difference. I showed a friend who just bought a GS350 F Sport an article on the GSF and she said " I just bought that car. " No wonder exhausts are so common on the ISF. Anything that will advertise the massive power difference is appealing. LOL