I Don't Get the Whole "F" Sport Thing
01-18-15, 04:53 PM
#46
The pursuit of F
Nope, AWD versions still gets staggered wheels on the IS (and I believe GS) as well as the bigger brakes and AVS on top of sport-tuned springs/shocks.
What AWD doesn't get is the 8-speed, VGRS, and the rear wheel steering (GS only). The IS 250 is the least equipped F-Sport and doesn't get the bigger brakes nor AVS on either RWD or AWD F Sport versions, but still gets the sport tuned springs/shocks and staggered wheels.
01-18-15, 05:04 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
No staggered wheels or bigger brakes on the GS AWD F Sport unfortunately. You do obviously get AVS.
01-18-15, 07:14 PM
#49
Pole Position
AWD still benefit from the AVS adaptive suspension and sports tuned shocks and still get 19 inch broader wheels for improved grip, albeit not staggered.
Though I will concede the RWD versions of F-Sport get significantly more suspension upgrades compared to their AWD brethren.
01-19-15, 02:11 AM
#50
who really cares, we always wanted more options and now people complain about having options.
Here in Europe, I cant imagine buying Audi, BMW or MB without "sport" package (S-Line, M Sport, AMG Sport), because base models look poor. And they actually split it into small parts, so you can have S-Line outside and base model inside. Nobody is even talking about any kind of performance upgrade, strictly looks.
So F-Sport is actually above that and offers rounded, comprehensive package, for looks inside/out and suspension.
If people think it is silly, they can buy regular one... complaining about having extra options in something i cant understand at all.
Here in Europe, I cant imagine buying Audi, BMW or MB without "sport" package (S-Line, M Sport, AMG Sport), because base models look poor. And they actually split it into small parts, so you can have S-Line outside and base model inside. Nobody is even talking about any kind of performance upgrade, strictly looks.
So F-Sport is actually above that and offers rounded, comprehensive package, for looks inside/out and suspension.
If people think it is silly, they can buy regular one... complaining about having extra options in something i cant understand at all.
01-19-15, 12:00 PM
#51
Lexus Test Driver
I gotta get in here. First, to me "Sport" by itself conjures up visions of cheap dealer decal packs on Tercels and minivans that always had "Sport" decaled on the trunk. Second, "F" is as unique to Lexus as "M" or AMG is to BMW and Mercedes. Cadiilac even copied Lexus with their V- Sport. Third, the F Sports offer better seats, handling and (IMO), nicer looks than regular versions for the IS, GS, CT and NX - the only one that is kinda lame is the RX F Sport. Finally, I think the GS F is going to knock the car testers' socks off and toss their hats in the weeds.
However, I wouldn’t have bought an RX if not for the F-Sport package. Me and my wife test drove them over the years, 2002, 2006 and 2011 and neither me or my wife were ever sold on the regular RX or the overly “cushy” ride. Not meaning to knock it, after all it’s a Lexus but it just wasn’t for us. The F-Sport changed that for us with its appearance enhancements and better handling.
Sure it’s cosmetic changes appealed to us, the sportier front, the dark grey 19”wheels and the F-Sport exclusive cabernet interior. But it does also come with an 8 speed trans instead of a 6 speed and VDIM. Sport tuned shocks, front and rear stabilizer bars and performance dampers so it handles much better than the regular RX. It also comes standard with AWD so that is a good part of the added $$ premium.
What I don’t get is if the F Sport package across all models is increasing sales, why is it such a problem for so many people (not directed at you) on this forum. If people don't like the F Sport package or "don't get it" then don't buy it..
01-19-15, 01:36 PM
#52
Lexus Test Driver
Had my 4GS in for 15K service yesterday. While waiting I took a look at two models I had only seen on the Internet, the RC-F, and the NX. I had panned both of them. After seeing them I changed my mind. I like them!
The RC-F had that special edition glittery blue paint. It was really pretty. But it was a tight fit sitting inside. The driver's seat felt snug, almost too snug, and the two rear seats must be there as a joke. Still, I liked the looks of the car. I suppose 4.4 to 60 is fast enough, but what's up with a snow button on a RC-F? That's a joke, right?
Then I took a good look at the NSX. I've turned 180 on this vehicle. I really like it. Luxury interior, enough HP to get the job done. A real Lexus. What I don't get is the F version of this particular vehicle. It's stupid.
I have a problem with all of the F Sport versions of different models including the GS FSport. It's the same friggin' engine! It might be one-tenth of a second quicker to 60, if that. It is the exact same engine! The slightly different front end is just cosmetic and a matter of taste but there is nothing special about the engine.
This seems like a money-making scheme from Lexus. My non-F Sport is just as fast on the highway as an F Sport, so why pay extra money for the F Sport? Add another 50-60 HP to the F Sport and you've got something worth buying.
As far as the new GS F goes (without the "sport") it is priced way too high. Much faster lux sedans can be had for the same price. So at the price point for the new "F" the car is underpowered. Drop the price 8-10 grand and they'll hit the sweet spot where power and price vs the competition makes sense.
Lexus needs to get its act together.
The RC-F had that special edition glittery blue paint. It was really pretty. But it was a tight fit sitting inside. The driver's seat felt snug, almost too snug, and the two rear seats must be there as a joke. Still, I liked the looks of the car. I suppose 4.4 to 60 is fast enough, but what's up with a snow button on a RC-F? That's a joke, right?
Then I took a good look at the NSX. I've turned 180 on this vehicle. I really like it. Luxury interior, enough HP to get the job done. A real Lexus. What I don't get is the F version of this particular vehicle. It's stupid.
I have a problem with all of the F Sport versions of different models including the GS FSport. It's the same friggin' engine! It might be one-tenth of a second quicker to 60, if that. It is the exact same engine! The slightly different front end is just cosmetic and a matter of taste but there is nothing special about the engine.
This seems like a money-making scheme from Lexus. My non-F Sport is just as fast on the highway as an F Sport, so why pay extra money for the F Sport? Add another 50-60 HP to the F Sport and you've got something worth buying.
As far as the new GS F goes (without the "sport") it is priced way too high. Much faster lux sedans can be had for the same price. So at the price point for the new "F" the car is underpowered. Drop the price 8-10 grand and they'll hit the sweet spot where power and price vs the competition makes sense.
Lexus needs to get its act together.
Not sure what the big deal is here.
01-19-15, 01:42 PM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
But why remove the letter? "F Sport" sounds better, it forwards the idea that "F" stands for the sport side of Lexus. It fits in with the naming conventions of its competition. Removing the F now just confuses things further.
Anybody who would buy a GS-F or RC-F is an enthusiast to the point where they are going to understand that their car is different from an F Sport.
If something is working you don't just change it. You seem to want anything with the letter "F" to be a fire breathing screamer of a car totally out of reach of most buyers. Thats just not a business reality. The whole point of building a high performance "F" car is to sell the cheaper "F Sport" cars that people can actually buy. They aren't going to make money on the RC-F or GS-F.
Anybody who would buy a GS-F or RC-F is an enthusiast to the point where they are going to understand that their car is different from an F Sport.
If something is working you don't just change it. You seem to want anything with the letter "F" to be a fire breathing screamer of a car totally out of reach of most buyers. Thats just not a business reality. The whole point of building a high performance "F" car is to sell the cheaper "F Sport" cars that people can actually buy. They aren't going to make money on the RC-F or GS-F.
This is Marketing 101.
01-19-15, 03:05 PM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
Fsport AWD cars lack all of those features.
BTW BMW does same thing for their Xdrive Msport packs, but at least u can easily order a RWD car with no hassle.
01-19-15, 03:09 PM
#55
Lexus Champion
IS350 F Sport AWD DOES have AVS, F Sport brakes, and staggered wheels. Heck, even my IS350 non F Sport AWD has the staggered wheels.
01-19-15, 03:10 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
So it looks like you need to "brush up on your Lexus knowledge" too. On top of brushing up on your common courtesy. Corrado has been contributing a ton to CL, which is what has led to him being made a moderator. Even if he was incorrect about a couple facts here, he deserves more respect than a line like that.
01-19-15, 06:38 PM
#57
Lexus Test Driver
Had my 4GS in for 15K service yesterday. While waiting I took a look at two models I had only seen on the Internet, the RC-F, and the NX. I had panned both of them. After seeing them I changed my mind. I like them!
The RC-F had that special edition glittery blue paint. It was really pretty. But it was a tight fit sitting inside. The driver's seat felt snug, almost too snug, and the two rear seats must be there as a joke. Still, I liked the looks of the car. I suppose 4.4 to 60 is fast enough, but what's up with a snow button on a RC-F? That's a joke, right?
Then I took a good look at the NSX. I've turned 180 on this vehicle. I really like it. Luxury interior, enough HP to get the job done. A real Lexus. What I don't get is the F version of this particular vehicle. It's stupid.
I have a problem with all of the F Sport versions of different models including the GS FSport. It's the same friggin' engine! It might be one-tenth of a second quicker to 60, if that. It is the exact same engine! The slightly different front end is just cosmetic and a matter of taste but there is nothing special about the engine.
This seems like a money-making scheme from Lexus. My non-F Sport is just as fast on the highway as an F Sport, so why pay extra money for the F Sport? Add another 50-60 HP to the F Sport and you've got something worth buying.
As far as the new GS F goes (without the "sport") it is priced way too high. Much faster lux sedans can be had for the same price. So at the price point for the new "F" the car is underpowered. Drop the price 8-10 grand and they'll hit the sweet spot where power and price vs the competition makes sense.
Lexus needs to get its act together.
The RC-F had that special edition glittery blue paint. It was really pretty. But it was a tight fit sitting inside. The driver's seat felt snug, almost too snug, and the two rear seats must be there as a joke. Still, I liked the looks of the car. I suppose 4.4 to 60 is fast enough, but what's up with a snow button on a RC-F? That's a joke, right?
Then I took a good look at the NSX. I've turned 180 on this vehicle. I really like it. Luxury interior, enough HP to get the job done. A real Lexus. What I don't get is the F version of this particular vehicle. It's stupid.
I have a problem with all of the F Sport versions of different models including the GS FSport. It's the same friggin' engine! It might be one-tenth of a second quicker to 60, if that. It is the exact same engine! The slightly different front end is just cosmetic and a matter of taste but there is nothing special about the engine.
This seems like a money-making scheme from Lexus. My non-F Sport is just as fast on the highway as an F Sport, so why pay extra money for the F Sport? Add another 50-60 HP to the F Sport and you've got something worth buying.
As far as the new GS F goes (without the "sport") it is priced way too high. Much faster lux sedans can be had for the same price. So at the price point for the new "F" the car is underpowered. Drop the price 8-10 grand and they'll hit the sweet spot where power and price vs the competition makes sense.
Lexus needs to get its act together.
Where can I get one?...
01-20-15, 06:59 PM
#58
Edmunds tested a GS350 F-Sport with LDH and it completed the slalom faster than a 560hp BMW M5 despite the GS350 being only 306hp. So F-Sport tuning is no joke
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-350/2013/road-test.html
Seem like you haven't done enough research on Lexus F-Sport program. Think about it : an F-Sport GS350 outslalomed a 560hp $90,000 BMW M5. I'd consider it a bargain.
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-350/2013/road-test.html
Seem like you haven't done enough research on Lexus F-Sport program. Think about it : an F-Sport GS350 outslalomed a 560hp $90,000 BMW M5. I'd consider it a bargain.
If Lexus is able to continue delivering those levels of handling performance from tuning its base models, the F-Sport brand has achieved its objectives.
01-21-15, 08:17 AM
#59
This is from the car salesman side of me.
Having the F-Sport versions does spur sales. Cosmetic changes/upgrades do matter to some shoppers. But F-Sport is more than cosmetics. You do feel the difference. That's worth the extra price premium for sure. Here's what bothers me. Some people want the F-Sport but will pretend its no big deal and try to negotiate the price to the same as the regular model. Then I'll say, lets do the regular model since you don't want to pay more. Then they refuse to take the regular model after having driven the F-Sport.
Its gotten worse with the Crafted Line. People will say, its just painted wheels and red seats. Why should I pay more....but they refuse to take the regular model after seeing it and don't want to pay more.
But its clear to me that F-Sport is desirable and needs to stay.
BMW has M and M-Sport and no one is complaining.
My fantasy would be to have 3 horsepower levels. Base power, F-Sport power then F power. My enthusiast side always speaks out in the end.
Having the F-Sport versions does spur sales. Cosmetic changes/upgrades do matter to some shoppers. But F-Sport is more than cosmetics. You do feel the difference. That's worth the extra price premium for sure. Here's what bothers me. Some people want the F-Sport but will pretend its no big deal and try to negotiate the price to the same as the regular model. Then I'll say, lets do the regular model since you don't want to pay more. Then they refuse to take the regular model after having driven the F-Sport.
Its gotten worse with the Crafted Line. People will say, its just painted wheels and red seats. Why should I pay more....but they refuse to take the regular model after seeing it and don't want to pay more.
But its clear to me that F-Sport is desirable and needs to stay.
BMW has M and M-Sport and no one is complaining.
My fantasy would be to have 3 horsepower levels. Base power, F-Sport power then F power. My enthusiast side always speaks out in the end.
01-21-15, 05:48 PM
#60
This is from the car salesman side of me.
Having the F-Sport versions does spur sales. Cosmetic changes/upgrades do matter to some shoppers. But F-Sport is more than cosmetics. You do feel the difference. That's worth the extra price premium for sure. Here's what bothers me. Some people want the F-Sport but will pretend its no big deal and try to negotiate the price to the same as the regular model. Then I'll say, lets do the regular model since you don't want to pay more. Then they refuse to take the regular model after having driven the F-Sport.
Its gotten worse with the Crafted Line. People will say, its just painted wheels and red seats. Why should I pay more....but they refuse to take the regular model after seeing it and don't want to pay more.
But its clear to me that F-Sport is desirable and needs to stay.
BMW has M and M-Sport and no one is complaining.
My fantasy would be to have 3 horsepower levels. Base power, F-Sport power then F power. My enthusiast side always speaks out in the end.
Having the F-Sport versions does spur sales. Cosmetic changes/upgrades do matter to some shoppers. But F-Sport is more than cosmetics. You do feel the difference. That's worth the extra price premium for sure. Here's what bothers me. Some people want the F-Sport but will pretend its no big deal and try to negotiate the price to the same as the regular model. Then I'll say, lets do the regular model since you don't want to pay more. Then they refuse to take the regular model after having driven the F-Sport.
Its gotten worse with the Crafted Line. People will say, its just painted wheels and red seats. Why should I pay more....but they refuse to take the regular model after seeing it and don't want to pay more.
But its clear to me that F-Sport is desirable and needs to stay.
BMW has M and M-Sport and no one is complaining.
My fantasy would be to have 3 horsepower levels. Base power, F-Sport power then F power. My enthusiast side always speaks out in the end.