I Don't Get the Whole "F" Sport Thing
#31
Lexus Fanatic
I understand plenty well how important and valuable names are, but I think the statement that Lexus shouldn't use "F" in "F-Sport" because it somehow dilutes the public's perception of cars that are low volume niche vehicles a little ridiculous. People are buying the F Sports, just look around. You're always going to have non-enthusiasts that don't understand the difference between a "GS350 F Sport" and a "GS-F". These people would have the same lack of understanding if they were discussing a "535i M Sport" and an "M5".
#32
Pole Position
AMG and M are well established and iconic already, not the F, that's one good reason already, when you try to establish a brand playing catch up in the public ' s eye , try not to confuse them with something else the best you can.
F is just a letter, and the 3 point star is just a logo, but you cannot overestimate how important and valuable it is to a company. Did you read the annual reports of measuring how valuable the brand names are, benz and Toyota consistently come up top in luxury and non-luxury car brands, and it's because of the brand name/logo. THAT'S why a medicore Camry can still outsell all year after year, and early to mid 2000's Mercedes still sold very well despite being near the bottom of all quality surveys among all luxury and non ' luxury brands during that period, thanks to just that 3 point star logo .
F is just a letter, and the 3 point star is just a logo, but you cannot overestimate how important and valuable it is to a company. Did you read the annual reports of measuring how valuable the brand names are, benz and Toyota consistently come up top in luxury and non-luxury car brands, and it's because of the brand name/logo. THAT'S why a medicore Camry can still outsell all year after year, and early to mid 2000's Mercedes still sold very well despite being near the bottom of all quality surveys among all luxury and non ' luxury brands during that period, thanks to just that 3 point star logo .
I think I read somewhere that a very large proportion of IS and GS sold are F-Sports?
So obviously Lexus has done its research since a large portion of its target market are loving the whole F-Sport branding.
#33
Lexus Fanatic
And the % of F Sport sales has increased from when the 4GS was first released. In fact, it caught Lexus a little off guard and they had to adjust the % of GS and IS that were built as F Sports.
#34
Super Moderator
I understand plenty well how important and valuable names are, but I think the statement that Lexus shouldn't use "F" in "F-Sport" because it somehow dilutes the public's perception of cars that are low volume niche vehicles a little ridiculous. People are buying the F Sports, just look around. You're always going to have non-enthusiasts that don't understand the difference between a "GS350 F Sport" and a "GS-F". These people would have the same lack of understanding if they were discussing a "535i M Sport" and an "M5".
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Anybody who would buy a GS-F or RC-F is an enthusiast to the point where they are going to understand that their car is different from an F Sport.
If something is working you don't just change it. You seem to want anything with the letter "F" to be a fire breathing screamer of a car totally out of reach of most buyers. Thats just not a business reality. The whole point of building a high performance "F" car is to sell the cheaper "F Sport" cars that people can actually buy. They aren't going to make money on the RC-F or GS-F.
#36
Pole Position
Also most people disparaging F-Sport branding have not addressed the fact that for IS and GS line, F-Sport has tangible measurable handling/performance benefits.
In my earlier post just 2-3 post before, I showed that an F-Sport GS350, not even a full blown GS-F, performed better than a 560hp, $90,000 BMW M5 on the slalom.
So for those asking why F-Sport, my answer is :
1) performance benefit is real and not just cosmetic, in fact very appreciable and measurable
2) it has been a sales success for Lexus
In my earlier post just 2-3 post before, I showed that an F-Sport GS350, not even a full blown GS-F, performed better than a 560hp, $90,000 BMW M5 on the slalom.
So for those asking why F-Sport, my answer is :
1) performance benefit is real and not just cosmetic, in fact very appreciable and measurable
2) it has been a sales success for Lexus
#37
Super Moderator
But why remove the letter? "F Sport" sounds better, it forwards the idea that "F" stands for the sport side of Lexus. It fits in with the naming conventions of its competition. Removing the F now just confuses things further.
Anybody who would buy a GS-F or RC-F is an enthusiast to the point where they are going to understand that their car is different from an F Sport.
If something is working you don't just change it. You seem to want anything with the letter "F" to be a fire breathing screamer of a car totally out of reach of most buyers. Thats just not a business reality. The whole point of building a high performance "F" car is to sell the cheaper "F Sport" cars that people can actually buy. They aren't going to make money on the RC-F or GS-F.
Anybody who would buy a GS-F or RC-F is an enthusiast to the point where they are going to understand that their car is different from an F Sport.
If something is working you don't just change it. You seem to want anything with the letter "F" to be a fire breathing screamer of a car totally out of reach of most buyers. Thats just not a business reality. The whole point of building a high performance "F" car is to sell the cheaper "F Sport" cars that people can actually buy. They aren't going to make money on the RC-F or GS-F.
YES I understand they eventually want the Real F cars to help the "sports" sales, but would rather let the Real F brand to be more established first, then maybe they can add the F-sport. Meanwhile, I personally think they can sell them as SPORT models as successfully just with the cosmetic difference ...
#38
Lexus Test Driver
AMG and M are well established and iconic already, not the F, that's one good reason already, when you try to establish a brand playing catch up in the public ' s eye , try not to confuse them with something else the best you can.
F is just a letter, and the 3 point star is just a logo, but you cannot overestimate how important and valuable it is to a company. Did you read the annual reports of measuring how valuable the brand names are, benz and Toyota consistently come up top in luxury and non-luxury car brands, and it's because of the brand name/logo. THAT'S why a medicore Camry can still outsell all year after year, and early to mid 2000's Mercedes still sold very well despite being near the bottom of all quality surveys among all luxury and non ' luxury brands during that period, thanks to just that 3 point star logo .
F is just a letter, and the 3 point star is just a logo, but you cannot overestimate how important and valuable it is to a company. Did you read the annual reports of measuring how valuable the brand names are, benz and Toyota consistently come up top in luxury and non-luxury car brands, and it's because of the brand name/logo. THAT'S why a medicore Camry can still outsell all year after year, and early to mid 2000's Mercedes still sold very well despite being near the bottom of all quality surveys among all luxury and non ' luxury brands during that period, thanks to just that 3 point star logo .
What I don't like at all is there is NO CLEAR direction for the "F" brand itself and its already being diluted by Lexus marketing without even being really established as anything special.
- LFA was discontinued with no successor and no further plans.......
- ISF also was discontinued with no successor...........
- RCF is here and only true competitive F model against its direct competition - M4, RS5, C63, ATS But it was not designed to be an F car from the beginning hence this use of 3 different chassis to make it work.
- GSF is no-mans land ??? Is it an F car or Fsport plus or just a weak/cheap attempt by Lexus Its noncompetitive against M, AMG, CTS-V etc
M and AMG naming are being put on everything but they are already well-established performance lines. In addition there is a "true" M and AMG version of all these models.
Fsport has been a great success for Lexus and I'm happy they copied BMW and are offering a true sports appearance package with some performance (handling/tuning) upgrades.
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Also most people disparaging F-Sport branding have not addressed the fact that for IS and GS line, F-Sport has tangible measurable handling/performance benefits.
In my earlier post just 2-3 post before, I showed that an F-Sport GS350, not even a full blown GS-F, performed better than a 560hp, $90,000 BMW M5 on the slalom.
So for those asking why F-Sport, my answer is :
1) performance benefit is real and not just cosmetic, in fact very appreciable and measurable
2) it has been a sales success for Lexus
In my earlier post just 2-3 post before, I showed that an F-Sport GS350, not even a full blown GS-F, performed better than a 560hp, $90,000 BMW M5 on the slalom.
So for those asking why F-Sport, my answer is :
1) performance benefit is real and not just cosmetic, in fact very appreciable and measurable
2) it has been a sales success for Lexus
There are NO RWD cars in Northeast and ordering one is a nightmare
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Thats basically all there is to say. If something has been a "great success" its a success...so why are we talking about how Lexus shouldn't call the cars "F Sport"?
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Exactly, and I'm glad they don't require you to always buy the highest HP model. The trim level has been a great success.
#43
I gotta get in here. First, to me "Sport" by itself conjures up visions of cheap dealer decal packs on Tercels and minivans that always had "Sport" decaled on the trunk. Second, "F" is as unique to Lexus as "M" or AMG is to BMW and Mercedes. Cadiilac even copied Lexus with their V- Sport. Third, the F Sports offer better seats, handling and (IMO), nicer looks than regular versions for the IS, GS, CT and NX - the only one that is kinda lame is the RX F Sport. Finally, I think the GS F is going to knock the car testers' socks off and toss their hats in the weeds.