Gen3Camry

I've been an automotive enthusiast as soon as I could walk. I started collecting toy cars from the time I was an infant. Until I was 16, I had no sense of how different cars drove. But, I always liked the Toyota Camry. Why? I didn't think that deeply into it, but I just thought the Gen 4 in particular was an attractive, understated, and fairly sleek and slender-profile vehicle while retaining a conservative and traditional sedan profile.

Then, at 17, I was offered a Gen 3 Camry. I contemplated the fact that it wasn't a Gen 4 like I was planning on, and accepted. After some work, the cars virtues came through. WOW, what a car. The more like-new it got through my babying of it, and with automatic transmission solenoids replaced by the owner of the Fort Collins Aamco, who started sharing his love of the gen 3 Camry's engineering without me saying a word, I discovered something very awesome, and also very unsettling. Originally, as the transmission was slipping, the car was miserable to drive. With it fixed, mobil super 5W-30 in the 2.2 L engine, fuel injector cleaner poured in the gas tank, I couldn't fault the car. It has over 200,000 miles and drives like its a brand new car. Step on the throttle and the 2.2 L twin cam aluminum head, with 4 valves per cylinder has a non-throaty but surprisingly sexy sports car growl. There is alot of low end torque, step on the gas and the revs climb, as the Non-synchronous transmission glides its way seamlessly into the next gear. The car is a tank. The interior is built to exacting standards, as is the exterior. It doesn't sacrifice performance for reliability. Even the "bland" exterior is not to me... a body that appears long and low, slender and sleek. The rear window is convex horizontally with no corners. Souronding it is a one piece roof lacking rain gutters and a fat C-pillar with a continous shoulder... the way the trunk flows into the window is seamless. A large departure from the rectangle slab rear windows on almost every modern sedan. Looks like a more expensive manufacturing process. The cars hood hangs very low and is very long, and the front end looks as low and wide as some supercars. I've almost never seen another sedan that looks so low, wide, and long. Its like a 1995 Impala SS.

Due to these experiences and fact-based opinions, I can't bring myself to accept the award of "most boring car ever made" by the automotive media. ESPECIALLY JALOPNIK. God. If you are passing yourself off as a legitimate journalism site, at least defend an argument with a logical rationale or truthful facts! I am ashamed to admit that I have argued with and insulted some Jalopnik journalists who try to spread a rumor that "ALL camry drivers are ALWAYS the WORST drivers of ALL." I do regret getting into these arguments. But it also upsets me that actual employed journalists are LYING. Legitimately lying or even making up facts on the spot in articles. I have personally read articles where Jalopnik or "OppoLock" will target the Toyota Camry and site facts which I know are the opposite of true engineering facts. And I do not think of myself more highly for being an engineering student. But I just believe if a Journalist is not an expert of the vehicle they are reviewing, its time to stop writing made up articles and let the experts do it. But it isn't ONLY Jalopnik. I've read on Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Camry is the "most boring car ever made", "Appliance, Toaster, Refrigerator", ETC.

I'm sorry, but I can't conceptualize these opinions. Are we really saying a 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer physically looks less like a Toaster oven from a visual perception? Are we really supposed to think that a Camry, with its long and curved shape looks more like an appliance than a Chevy Aveo sedan or Nissan Versa sedan? Is a 1996 Camry XLE V6 with leather seats, Dolby soround sound, 6 CD changer, moon roof, and power everything with a non-synchronous transmission honestly supposed to be more of an "appliance" than a 2006 Chevy Aveo Sedan or Nissan Versa? And I actually like those cars. I just don't see how an upscale medium sized sedan can be a basic transport disposable appliance, more so than a subcompact econobox.

And its pretty hard to read this from trusted media after reading the Mary Walton book.

And how am I supposed to justify the long, slender, flowing body shell of my 92 to an "econobox". Its especially appearant to see a Gen 3 Camry lowered on 17" or 18" rims.
Sorry, just don't see it.

geko29

You'll find lots of love on this forum for the 3Gen Camry, notably from mmarshall and myself. To this day, it's one of the highest quality vehicles to ever wear the Toyota badge in the US. It's been downhill, quality-wise, for that platform ever since. The 6Gen 2006-2011 is my least favorite of the bunch (admittedly I've not driven the 1Gen). Finally the latest ES seems to be getting back to those same principles of build quality, but part of doing that was moving it to a different platform (Avalon).

But being a flawlessly-executed vehicle doesn't automatically mean being a driver's car. The market the Camry (and a whole bunch of others, including my RX) plays in is that of the transportation appliance. The target customer is one who wants a reliable, comfortable vehicle that will get them to work and other destinations with a minimum of fuss. Engagement is not high on the list of priorities. They did dabble in that space briefly with the sport-tuned CE model, but it did not sell well and was discontinued quickly.

"Most Boring Car Ever"? Only in the good ways. I've driven a few cars that were "less boring" by virtue of being terrible--the Chevy Cobalt and Saturn L200 come to mind as particularly reprehensible examples in recent years. You had to be more involved driving those cars because they were uncomfortable, loud and slow, not because the driving dynamics were superior. It could be argued that in this product class, "boring" is a virtue and "Most boring" would be the utmost compliment. I won't make that particular argument here, but it's a perfectly reasonable one. What I will say is that I think the Camry is boring in the same way that the Mercedes E-class is boring--and the E350 is the best car I've ever rented.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

looking on wikipedia there's been more model variations around the world than i realized: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Camry i

for millions of people the camry represents good value and a safe choice. not the fastest, prettiest, most leading edge, or anything, but refined, efficient, comfortable, easy to use, and extremely reliable and consistently put together, with good resale.

some versions (generations) have definitely been better than others, but that's not surprising as markets change, and toyota's decisions change.

the latest camry is a solid refresh of the prior one which to me seemed rather cheaply made (materials, plain).

Gen3Camry, at least post a pic of your car.

a '92 is an old car now, but you've obviously taken good care of it! i think yours is this version, right?


i only hesitate because i think the one of those i drove was a '96.

gyrase321

The people that write on Jalopnik and other auto sites, and those who respond to the threads constantly diss Toyota/Lexus so they can prove to each other their German car fanboy credentials. Trying to out-macho each other is the name of the game. Don't worry about them. Buy the car because it meets your needs, not because you need validation from Jalopnik and other so-called "car enthusiasts".

SW17LS

Build quality...maybe...but certainly not material quality. The latest ES has the worst quality materials the ES has ever had, and that comes from someone who owned the immediately prior two generations.

As for the Camry, the reason enthusiasts hate the Camry is that its the "anti-enthusiast" poster child. Its purchased (in general, not always) by people to whom a car and driving are just an appliance and a chore...and to somebody who is an enthusiast there can be a certain insult to somebody being so completely 180 degrees from them.

I don't hate the Camry as a concept, but I hate what the Camry has become and what Toyota has done with it in recent years. Your generation Camry led the way in quality, comfort, design. It could be a driving appliance, but it was still a showplace for quality. Rode great, very solid, classy looking. The Camry is not that way anymore. Its become an exercise in aggressive mediocrity. Its almost like Toyota over successive generations has tried to see how crappy they can make the Camry and still have people buy it because its a Camry. Well...they found out and their competitors (mostly Honda) started to close the gap so they released a half-headed total refresh for this year and addressed some of the look issues, but not all and none of the drivability and quality issues. The result? A car that used to constantly be #1 or #2 in comparison tests...is now an also ran or at the bottom of the pack. As an enthusiast, that contentment with mediocrity, the willingness to make what is not even close to the best car in its segment just because people still buy it because of its name makes me mad. Toyota as a brand seems like an entirely different company today than it was in the mid 90s when your Camry was made.

I would never buy a Camry...but I would buy a Sonata, an Accord, a Mazda 6, a Ford Fusion...thats not because the Camry is a driving appliance...its just not a very good car nowadays compared to its peers.

mmarshall

On the Camry, geko29 has pretty much covered it.....there isn't a whole lot I can add. I totally agree that, quality-wise, the 3Gen Camry reached its peak, and that it was all slowly downhill from then, though the latest Camry, except for thin sheet metal and doors, seems to have arrested that pattern some.

As for the "Most Boring Car Ever", in my lifetime, except for the nice thermoplastic body side panels (a feature I always liked in older Saturns), the Saturn Ion probably takes the cake. Sitting in one and driving one, it gave the impression that it was designed and engineered by a bunch of pre-schoolers that were practicing with their crayons.

SW17LS

Lets think about what makes a car "boring". While the Gen3 Camry was a high quality, attractive, well made car...I would agree its a pretty boring car. There's nothing edgy or exciting about it, it doesn't make people turn heads, its not quick or fast. There's nothing "exciting" about it. One might appreciate its design and how well made it is...but that doesn't make it exciting. I have a really nice toaster. When I bought it I said "Wow, this is a nice toaster". But, its still a toaster, and now I just make toast in it and the thrill is gone LOL. The Camry, and any car in that segment made at that time, is really just a driving appliance, not a lot of people who drive them are enthusiastic about them. Some are, like the OP, and others...

Now, before you staple me to the wall and throw toast at me, this is coming from someone who has owned and loved a long line of boring cars. Just look at my signature, the only cars I've ever owned that I don't think are boring I currently own, my Lexus GS and my Jeep Grand Cherokee. Lexus LS...great car, incredibly well built, beautifully riding cars and I loved them. Boring. Lexus ES, great value (basically a Camry), also excellent riding cars giving a lot of the LS experience at half the cost...uber boring. Loved them too.

Boring isn't bad necessarily. What I think is pretty cool is that a lot of cars in that segment are growing to become more than driving appliances, as an enthusiast I love that. Mazda 6, Ford Fusion, even the refresh Camry in SE trim...even though its just show.

Its $28k or so to spend today you can legitiately buy a sedan that will drive your family around, be reliable and well made, and look cool and drive well. I think thats great, and it hasn't always been that way.

TangoRed

Nailed it. Couldn't have said it better myself.

FrankReynoldsCPA

The others said it well.

The Camry is about the most boring vehicle on the road. People buy it because they have to have a car. Not because they want to have a Camry.

Gen3Camry

Now I'm not going to bite anyone's heads off, most of the replies were pretty rational and helped me understand things better.

For some reason I was associating "boring" with ugly or hideous. But I think what you guys are implying is that a "boring" design can still mean the car is attractively styled and looks good. A Camry is not as flashy as many cars, but it doesn't necessarily look worse. Alot of "boring" large bodied sedans are the basis for the whole VIP style from Japan. I've seen it done to gen 3 Camrys and it works. Additionally, the Camry, being a very archetypal looking sedan, is viewed as "neutral" or "boring". Most people will be indifferent to it. However, something like the 2002 BMW 7-series designed by Chris Bangle may certainly not be regarded as "Boring". But, the design is very controversial, its either love/hate rather than neutral or un-opinionated. Many upscale sedans have the same conservative design such as a 1997 Mercedes Benz E class.

Also, I think the car being such an optimal or near perfect execution may be by virtue somewhat boring? Does all the sound deadening and road isolation sorta remove the driving experience?Maybe a more entry-level car is inherentley more fun simply by not being so dampened from the vibrations and road feel.

Lastly, I think part of my confusion is not realizing that modern camrys are very very different from my 1992. And many people are reviewing based on new models, which are really basically a completely different car compared to a gen 3 besides the name plate. And so in reading about a cheap feeling interior it wasn't translating to my personal experiences.

Here are some photos of modded gen 3's which kind of exhibits my point I was trying to make.

















And I'm not nearly as upset by anything I've read on Club Lexus compared with Jalopnik because nobody seems to be talking in any absurd sweeping generalizations about "ALL Camry drivers are PATHETIC and SUBPAR" like they do LOL. Everybody here actually helped my put things into perspective.

SW17LS

I'm not a mod guy so the modded cars don't look anything but rice-ey to me. But no, boring doesn't mean "ugly or hideous". Ugly and hideous by their very nature aren't boring. The Lexus LS is one of the most boring cars ever made...its also one of the best cars ever made. Not everybody wants or needs something exciting...my life is pretty boring actually...and I enjoy it very much.

A night at home in your easy chair is boring compared to a night out roaming the streets on quaaludes. But...I'd much rather be home in my chair LOL

gyrase321

If boring means "not flashy", "doesn't attract attention", "predictable", "performs as designed", "reliable", the Camry can be considered "boring". But that's not necessarily a bad thing. It all depends on your expectations of the car, and a good understanding of the purpose of the car. People call it an appliance. So what. It's a damn good one.The Camry wasn't designed to be a track weapon. It was designed to be a competent, reliable daily driver that is easy on the wallet of middle class buyers. The market agrees.

mmarshall

Correct. Though not all will admit it, the difference in material-solidness is especially noticeable between the superb 4Gen and the latest 6Gen ES.

Now, that's not to say that the latest ES is a bad car....it's not, by any means, and in some ways, I wouldn't mind owning one myself. But it is clearly not the superb mid-sized luxury sedan it was 10-15 years ago.

Although it is (admittedly) somewhat of an oversimplification, most of the so-called "enthusiasts" associated with the auto press and magazines are generally concerned foremost with a car's track performance....speed, acceleration, handling, braking, skidpad, G-figures, etc..... They will note sometimes if they feel the ride is unduly harsh for rough American roads (an increasingly common occurrence with low-profile tires and stiff underpinnings), or if sound insulation is overly-skimpy. But, in general, refinement, ride-comfort, or quietness is not high on their review-priority. But the OP in this thread (Gen3Camry), along with some others here on CL, (I won't name names) is living proof that one can be a "car" enthusiast without being a speed or aggressive-driving enthusiast. And, BTW, that's one thing I like about Motorweek's John Davis, who I know personally but not as a close friend. He, of course, does reviews professionally for the Motorweek TV show, and he's not only a super-nice guy to talk to (when I occasionally see him), but also generally not the type of aggressive-driving auto-journalist who, like Brock Yates (you might remember Yates from his days at Car & Driver) seemed to exist solely for the Cannonball runs and other dangerous escapades.

Gen3Camry

LOL Me as well. To make matters worse for myself I am a 22 year old male. I dislike going to nightclubs and bars, and prefer only chilling with one friend at a time, in their home. Even a lonely night time cruise through town feels uncomfortable. But yes, most of my time is at home, in my dad's basement which is all mine. I really don't go out much and dislike parties and getting "wasted".

And perhaps my love of these large conservative sedans comes from me absolutely dreading roller coasters and adrenaline rushes. I can't stand anything that makes my heart race. For me I dreaded roller coasters as much as a child as I do taking final exams in college now. It really is that bad.

I have a friend who gave me a ride in his insanly boosted Bug Eye WRX sedan, and when he gunned it I didn't really like it. So I may be not only a very unusual car enthusiast, but also a very unusual 22 year old college senior.

SW17LS

I agree 100%. To add to that, while I enjoyed many things about my 2010 ES350, it wasn't nearly as well built a vehicle as my 2003 ES was either, interior material quality was significantly cheaper, while it rode just as well and was as quiet, it just did not seem as substantial. My GS is 100% as substantial as my Dad's LS' were...but as soon as I shut the door and sat in the 6ES, it just did not feel like a "Lexus" to me.

I'm not really talking about the press, I'm talking about regular car folks, like us. People who post in the remarks on Jalopnik, etc.

I've always been the same way. When I was 22 I bought my first new car of my own, a 2003 Lexus ES300. What 23 year old who can spend $40k on a car (in 2003 that was a lot) wants an ES300? Maroon colored! My Dad's 98 Lexus LS that he got new as I was starting to drive is what turned me into a Lexus fan. I LOVED that car. On Saturdays it was mine and I always looked forward to Saturday lol

I do like roller coasters and speedboats, etc...I just like big luxury sedans.