GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Exactly. That's how it peaked my early interest in lexus and it lured me into the dealer without even have to test drive and what not.

But that's generally good enough for these people with $$$ to buy them. The stats, the brand, the prestige. That's how they get "lured" into the dealer. Having weak numbers, you have to "explain" yourself.
Business is business. Lexus has to cater to the majority of the buyers. Us picky enthusiasts who are content are too small of a number for them to survive

I am content with the new GS F-sport. But with this GS F, sounding like a broken record, I want it to have more.

If lexus is strategically coming out with an FS, I will eat my shoes to replace my words

And that's the vicious cycle right there is just like the GS460. It wasn't competitive so it was canceled (correct me if I'm way wrong). Had it been competitive from the start, they would've sold more.

Just like this new GS F, the big stats can lure more potential customers without having to work as hard.
When you're building something new, you might as well want it to succeed from the start don't you rather willing to take a loss since it will be sold in small numbers anyways???

SW17LS

Was that why the E550 was cancelled, it was never competitive from the start? Or was it that buying attitudes had shifted and buyers weren't as interested in V8 luxury cars as they had been?

Gojirra99

Actually we still have the E550 in Canada and likely most of the rest of the world, so maybe it's just the USA market, where most just go with the 6 cylinder or just jump to the E63 ?
Plus even USA still has the CLS550 which is basically a E class with tighter rear seat room but still has 4 doors.

TangoRed

The second part- the people that did want a V8 went straight to the E63.

Yes it's USA only and your assertion is correct. The CLS is positioned a half step above the E-class in the car hierarchy so the CLS550 model is still appropriate and, more importantly, makes up a good chunk of the sales.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

I wondered about that too and should've put that into my last post.
But for starters, number wasn't even that great for a V8.
When I saw the numbers for the 460, I couldn't even get excited about it

Back then, gosh here I go again, the GS300 was 210hp while the GS400 was 300. That was a worthy jump in hp

TangoRed

E350- 302hp/273tq
E550- 402hp/443tq

That's a pretty significant bump...unless I misunderstood your post, which is entirely possible.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Thanks, but yes, I was referring to the GS300 vs GS400, not the E class.

stlgrym3

iTrader: (4)

kind of disappointed with the numbers. they should tune that motor up to at least 500hp, it's a benchmark figure now for high performance luxury sedans. most likely the GS-F gonna cost around $80k, frankly for that price there are a ton of better options out there.

Lexuslvr91

And at the time the E63 and C63 still had the most powerful engines in their respective classes. No one ever complained that they stuffed the giant E63s motor into the tiny C63. Also the E63 had 518 hp to the C63s 457. A fair and respectable trade off for the lighter cheaper car. Also 61 hp is a significant difference in tuning. That could have put the GS-F at 528 Hp.

LOWFAST

I wonder if I/H/E will be able to get the revised 5.0 mill over the "magical" 500hp number? I know the ISF's respond very well to these mods but I suspect the newer version of the 5.0 already has better headers and exhaust to get its 50hp bump. It would have been great if Lexus would have increased the displacement to 5.2 or 5.5L for the GSF, that should have made an easy 525hp+ and would have made it more "special."

rominl

iTrader: (4)

no matter how you twist it, bottom line is people will compare the gsf to m5, including lexus. so thanks for proving that again. and even the rcf people, i remember vividly how in the beginning they kept saying the rcf is on its own, yaguchi didn't bother with m4 and 911 was the goal, they won't bother with the m4. and bam, as soon as cars got to press and public, every other thread you see the word m4 in it

simply put, just picture that on the gsf. who wants to bet if people are going to say 550i or m5?

ah, different tune, agree that's what they need!!

wait, where's the different tune here?

personally if it's the same engine but pushing 500 on the gsf? i probably wouldn't have made 3/4 of the posts i have made in this thread.

and yes, i am sure the chassis can handle it because it's superior

basically. there is no doubt sales is a problem and most people go e350. it's no secret that v8 midsize is a very tough sell here in the US, economy dictates that and as we can see even mb is not immune to that. so in short, making mid-size v8 and making it unique and competitive is very crucial here in the US market.

we will have to see soon enough, since mods on rcf will say a lot about the gsf. i won't be surprised if with mods the car can go above 500, but to me it's pointless once we go aftermarket. it's no longer apple to apple. if we talk about mods, mods on m5 and e63 can get very very serious

UDel

I expected there to be complaints about power but not so overwhelming disappointment.

The way I see it the GS F has potential if priced right.

There is no way Lexus was going toe to toe with the M5 or E63AMG their first time out with a top end GS. Lexus is still not a direct German competitor and not prestigious enough as a brand to charge around 100K for a mid level sedan no matter how much hp it makes, yes a couple dozen people on CL may buy it who could afford it but the buying pubic is not going to spend that kind of money on a Lexus. The LS is still a notch below the S class, A8, or 7 series, it is a great car but just not at their level or offers what they have offered like 12 cylinders, big V8 power, etc not to mention the top end lower volume cars/engines those German companies have offered that Lexus does not so expecting Lexus to be a direct competitor to the high dollar German power sedans with power, performance, price was a little unrealistic. It is not how Lexus does things.



The GS lost its V8 option which looking at the very low sales of the hybrid GS was probably a mistake but it lost its V8 while the Germans have still offered some kind of V8, this GS F is not only going for the high performance sedan market but it is also offering GS buyers a V8 version and hopefully not at some insane price. What if the GS F base price is around $75K, then I see it as a very good buy, it may not have the 500+hp as the Germans but it will also cost much less, won't be a gas guzzler, and will be much more reliable while offering great performance. This is a version of the GS I feel Lexus needs right now, Japanese rival Infiniti Q70 has offered more power/performance/V8 power then the GS so the GS F addresses that, hell even Acura has the hybrid version of the RLX making more power and performing better then any current version of the GS350.

I know many are complaining that they just dropped the engine from the RC-F into a bigger more expensive car but most of the IS/RC rivals are now going FI 6 cylinder instead of a NA V8 which I don't think many were complaining about Lexus staying with the V8. If Lexus copied and dropped a turbo V6 in the RC-F with around 430hp then the 467hp V8 GS-F would likely go over a little better but they kept the V8 in the lower tiered car leading some to expect more in the GS-F.

Lets wait for the tests and reviews until its written it off. If it is priced in the 70's it would be a great bargain and a hell of a lot of car for the money if performance is great and not that far off from the 100K German rivals. I think there is a bigger market for something between a M5 and 550 then another 100K 500+ hp monster. Just because it is not a direct M5 or AMG competitor does not mean it still won't be a great car especially if it performs, comes at a good price, is not a gas guzzler, and is much more reliable and trouble free.

If it is priced over 80K then I agree with many that it will be too expensive and not enough car for the money and there won't be much of a market for it and it will be too expensive for someone who likes the GS but really wants a V8 but does not want to pay a huge mark up for it.

As for the styling, I never really cared for the styling of the 4th Generation GS inside or out although I like it more then the 3rd Gen, the F sport looks decent in black or grey. I am not nuts over the GS-F styling but blue is not a good color for it at all, I would like to see what it looks like in black, grey, silver, or white.

SW17LS

Exactly my point. They discontinued the GS460 because there just wasn't much of a market for the car anymore.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

The USA market is just in between model right now, MB is downsizing their engines, the V8 E550 was dropped for a future E450 with a high boost V6 that makes around 370 hp.

Soon, the line up will be:

E400 low boost 3.0L V6 329 hp
E450 high boost 3.0L V6 365 hp
E63 low boost 5.5L V8 550 hp
E63 S high boost 5.5L V8 577 hp

The E63 will eventually have the 4.0L V8 with 500+ hp.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

When all their V8 were NA, the E63 had 507 hp, regular C63 had 450 hp and with the power package it had 480 hp. The S63 is the one with 518 hp.

Then they made a few C63 520 that had 520 hp, basically the S63's tune.

All same hardwares, different tune.