G Star

iTrader: (2)

Maybe Lexus wanted the GS-F to be exactly this way for strategic reasons.

redspencer

iTrader: (1)

I have to disagree with your statement. Lexus reps can claim that the RC-F is not a direct competitor to the M4 just like Lexus reps claimed that the IS-F was not a direct competitor to the previous generation M3 but it's only marketing mumbo jumbo.

On Lexus' website, the company brags about how the RC-F is faster than the M4 and the Audi RS5 on a closed track: http://www.lexus.com/models/RCF/gall...-closed-track1.

Even at the recent Lexus sponsored track day events, Lexus had the BMW M4 available as a direct comparison to the RC-F.

Lexuslvr91

Because the CTS-V is a newer product. The previous CTS-V muscled its way to the automotive scene with 556 hp from a force induced engine which was much more than the first ten CTS-V(400hp.) at that time most of the competition was making due with ~500 hp from higher revving naturally aspirated engines. The competition moved up the raised bar with force induced 550+ hp engines and I can guarantee the next gen vehicles will have close to if not more than 600 hp.



Another thing is the engine sharing with the RC F. Well that CTS uses a Vette engine, so what?

You make it sound so basic. What if the GS-F was sharing the V10 from the LF-A? Anywho one car shares its engine with a compact sport coupe which shares its basic construction from a large hybrid luxury flagship and the other shares its engine with a high performance supercar with higher performance than many cars costing as much as 4 and 5 times as much.

corradoMR2

Finally!! Glad to see the RC F seats and gauge cluster on the interior.

Only one nitpick, the "cheaper" IS/NX/RC steering wheel has no business in the GS.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

Lexus was never a performance brand to begin with. This is a new territory for them. They are doing OK, but they are not doing enough. If Lexus is serious about the future of the F brand, then they should show how serious they are. They should either beat the competition or become a follower. Followers never lead though. Right now they are following......

obturator

Not sure if Lexus is following close enough, however. Seems like they're being left behind.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

no, i thought i said that.

agreed, and wouldn't whether it has 400 or 600hp.

the rc-f does line up closer to the m4 than other match ups. given the 'bold' styling of the rc though, i think it's going for a different kind of customer than the 4 series.

the RC350 is more like a G37 (q60) to me, not like a 435i. the 4 series comes in luxury, m sport, and sport line trims as well as m4 and convertible of course. there's not a chance that the rc will make much of a dent against the 4 series. but rc / 4 / a5 / c coupe (?) comparisons will continue. it makes for interesting reading and debate.

i think that's part of it!

while the isf / rcf might line up close to m3/m4/c63, the mid size game is quite different.

the 2015 E63 AMG starts at $93,600. that probably doesn't include wheels or seats mb claims it does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. it's awd with a twin turbo 5.5L. i just don't think lexus is into that price of mid-size sedan at this point.

i mean go look at this page - it's just not realistic to think they're going to from a single GS350 (the 450h is pretty much dead in the u.s.) to something that competes with THIS beast.

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...ss-E/model-E63

lexus is probably done with any engines bigger than 5L and has just launched it's first low power small turbo engine. bmw and mb have been at it decades.

just because it's not competitive with an E63 doesn't mean it isn't cool.

you're probably right, but a huge 5L v8 from rc-f is quite a bit different than a compact high revving tt v6.

i agree! but i don't think they're interested in a 100K GS-F!

i don't think the is competes with the c class AT ALL. the c class is very conservative. the 3 series is kind of the 'sensible small sports sedan' in europe. the is has bold, polarizing styling. to me, different audiences. but comparisons keep the internet and car reviews buzzing.

i bet there's almost zero cross shopping of is and c class!

excellent point!

lexus absolutely could do it. but i don't think it meets their goals and priorities and they (obviously) take their time. this is the FIRST gs-f. it's not 'outrageous' like an e63, but it is potent. i just think the disappointment here on cl is because the engine is the same as the rc-f.

agreed

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

well back in the day, the gs400 was more powerful than the bmw 540i and that was a big deal. a lot of us here on cl got one and were blown away and modded the hell out of 'em.

but in a way it just turned out that way... they put the LS' v8 into a redesigned gs with some trick interior and exterior details. the stock handling and steering was actually pretty bad. modding though made it quite capable but besides some tame weakly marketed lexus upgrades called "l-tuned" and imported toyota (TOMS) parts, it was mainly all about after market.

lexus does it's own thing. sometimes it competes directly. sometimes it's completely new turf.

IF lexus really gets serious, it will be another 10 years before it happens. however, the LFA spectacularly showed what lexus can do, although i think the strategic value was very limited and the money could have been better spent doing something between 60-100k instead of 400k!

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

bitkahuna, you sir, got it

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

The LFA should have stayed aluminum with a $200k MSRP, it is not fast even with the CF construction, so might as well be a bit heavier to make it much cheaper so much more people get to enjoy that glorious V10.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

amen to that, or have two versions, one aluminum and one with the cf and sell more than 500!
the cf did allow lexus to develop that technology for future use.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thanks. it was getting ronery

bigbwb

Can't say I am surprised with the GS F specs and looks. I think it looks decent inside and out and would consider a used one in a few years to replace the wife's F sport. However I am disappointed lexus used the RcF v8. What was all that talk about new motors and Turbos coming soon that would be competitive etc? Why the heck is Toyota and Lexus soooo slow to introduce competitive powertrains? Come on, they are the largest auto company in the world with endless R&D budgets.

I get they are creating niche models but what ever happened to leading the pack? Cheaper econo cars are offering direct injection and more advanced trannies while Toyota for example has basically no cars in US with either one..... It's frustrating when you are loyal to a brand. I get the "reliability" angle, but yikes, any day now!

Sorry for the rant

Atomic350F

This new GSF is the real deal and definitely worthy of the F brand if the F stands for high performance (actually it stands for Fuji raceway)! Performance by numbers alone can be measured in power to weight or weight to power, its not just about total horsepower.

The higher the hp per pound, the better the performance potential. The lower the weight per every horse, the lighter the car and better the performance potential conversely.

See how the GSF stacks up here by the #'s (horsepower per pound and pounds per hp):

GSF 4034 lbs - 467hp = .11 hp/lb or 8.6 lbs/hp

Other Lexus F branded machines..
RCF 3958 lbs - 467hp = .11 hp/lb or 8.4 lbs/hp
2008 ISF 3780 lbs - 416hp = .11 hp/lb or 9.0 lbs/hp
2012 LFA 3263 lbs - 552hp = .16 hp/lb or 5.0 lbs/hp

Against the Euros they are aiming for..
M5 4287 lbs - 552hp = .12 hp/lb or 7.7 lbs/hp
E63 4464 lbs - 550hp = .12 hp/lb or 8.1 lbs/hp

Ok I admit its not in the same league as an LFA (who thought it would be though?), but its right there with the RCF and even slightly nudges out the ISF of just a couple years back. Lexus has not defiled the brand as far as I can tell looking at these specs! Lexus originally was born to compete with the Euros, and they are certainly giving them more than a run for their money (less money), in many aspects nowadays especially with their new pursuit - passion! The numbers also seem to tell this tale, as they are not falling to short at all on the spec sheet.

So Lexus didnt try to stomp out the competition with mega hp figures, thats not really their style. They are within reach of the Germans depending on how the car drives. At the end of the day though, power is nothing without handling, and Lexus has really stepped up in this dept last few years. With the already superb 4gs platform beefed up even further to complement the additional power I would bet this car is going to put a smile on the face of anyone who gets the pleasure of getting behind the wheel!!

To Lexus I say: "F yeah guys"!!

RXSF

True, but the European competitors are using turbos which means peak horsepower and torque arrives at much lower RPMs compared to the engine Lexus uses in the RCF and GSF.