DrRick

Not at all. The RCF has horsepower on par with its 'targets that aren't really targets'.

I really don't know where Lexus is trying to take this F brand. They started off great with the LFA and ISF. But then they castrate the IS in the eyes of the general public with the F Sport options. I know that bmw has the M Sport like...but they don't have identical badges save for some different colors.

Then comes the RCF. A chance a fantastic high performance coupe. But it comes in 2-300 lbs over weight. Now, the GSF nails the weight part but it comes in underpowered vs its 'perceived' M/AMG/RS/V counterparts. I don't get why they are playing this game halfway.

I guess the GS400 spoiled me 😢

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I personally know and seen many people who buy very expensive fast luxury cars that are pretty clueless about cars. Having money and the desire for a fast luxury car don't make them know cars

Even the old ones got 4 doors

Mr Bond

I think Chris Harris pretty much nails it about the F brand here ( RC-F test )

"Lexus has probably arrived at a 2014 party in 2008 clothes, but the RC F still has something about it. And it's not German, which for some people will be enough on its own"

This GS-F will probably be very nice to drive and have a beautiful sound, but there is really no market for it. It does not compete with M5 or AMG and the BMW 550i and similar cars are comfort cars with powerful, smooth and quiet engines. People do not buy a loaded 550i to be "sporty" or race it.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

in a way, yeah

but i do think isf and rcf were/are executed pretty well

DrRick

yeah...as you can see in my sig, im a fan of the ISF. if only folks would stop asking if its an F Sport

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thanks.

it's only confusing IF you ever expected the gs-f to compete with an E63 or M5 which was NEVER EVER going to happen, so if i'm confused, then you and others are delusional.

my point is the gs-f is basically a 4 door rc-f and if the rc-f is cool then the gs-f should be viewed as cool too. even if it had E63 type performance it would be blown away by a dodge hellcat. yeah a hellcat is no luxury vehicle, but really... mercedes and bmw sell a TINY number of e63/m5's and lexus isn't into selling tiny numbers, except for the lfa.

it's important to remember than neither bmw nor mercedes ever offered anything quite like the lfa. (yes they've both had or have supercars, but the lfa is very unique)

i guess, if stupid letters and numbers are important to you. how about calling it a gs400 super f-sport plus, then it will be even more impressive against 550i/e550.

lexus marches to its own drummer. they built an original LS like nothing else. they built an original RX like nothing else. they built an LFA like nothing else. most of the rest is filling in the gaps or re-using other models (altezza, soarer, es/avalon), etc.

there would be no F division at all had not some renegede engineers built an IS F prototype.

not sure if serious or if that was a jab ... most agree that driving a slow car fast is generally way more fun than driving a fast car slow.

back to this gs-f - it was entirely obvious that the car would come out like this, and it's still a great addition to the lexus line-up. those who want lexus to have direct competitors to the german big three are likely to be disappointed over and over. just because reviews and the internetz have decided the rc-f is a direct competitor to the m4 doesn't mean lexus is committed in that direction. the 'regular' rc for example, is basically NOTHING like a 4 series and the IS is pretty much nothing like the compact german sedans which are by and large very conservative.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

Well, this just proves that Lexus is really behind in the engine department. They should have kept this car for the next gen and debut it with the new engine and some serious hp numbers. I mean seriously, M5 10 years ago had more hp than this car. I agree with others, why call it a GS-F and ruin the F brand, just name it GS500 and call it a day.

TF109B

Who cares what journalists say? Why the need for 640hp? Why even 540hp? Youre at a level in these sedans where more and more power will turn into a "who's bigger" argument. I dont see how this car should be called something other than an "F". Because its not as powerful? Well then even the Germans fall short since the CTS-V is ~640-650hp level. Another thing is the engine sharing with the RC F. Well that CTS uses a Vette engine, so what?

SW17LS

I gotta admit, I'm disappointed in the decision to just put the RC-F's engine in the car too. Even if they had boosted it to 485 or 487 at least they could say they retuned the engine for more power...like they said they would. I'm sure it will drive great, but I don't think theres any getting around that power output is a disappointment.

I need to see it in person, and in another color I think. I love USB on the IS and RC, but for some reason its not doing it for me on the GS...

TangoRed

Well given typical GS sales numbers, do you really think the GS-F is going to bring in big numbers? I doubt they're going to sell that many of these.


Mercedes made CLK-GTR's for road use. Can't say Lexus did that.




Are you insinuating the RC-F isn't a direct competitor to the M4? RC not like a 4-series? Outside of styling the IS and the RC line up pretty damn well with the Germans.

I do agree Lexus is doing their own thing with this GS-F but I think it's more because they don't have the firepower right now.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

paul, i am not sure if i understand why it was never going to happen? if lexus can build the isf and rcf to be competitive against m3 and c63, why not in the mid-size game?

and i cannot agree at all that gsf having the same drive train as rcf means it's something cool as well. they are two different class, compact luxury segment, one is mid-size. i think that part is very clear. rcf is cool i agree, but the same setup in gsf doesn't mean it's cool.

it's like saying the m4 is cool now. but stuffing that tt v6 into the m5 and i am pretty sure the whole world is going to rain hell on that car

i think lexus is very prepared to sell tiny numbers of these cars. less than 15k copies of isf over the whole generation globally, that was a huge indication. by comparison m3 sales in 2 years probably is more than that

i don't think anyone is taking credit away from lexus for making miracles. the ls400, gs400, rx300, lfa, they all made history for the company. but at the same time, that doesn't buy them any bonus points when i am strictly looking at the gsf

i am sure everyone compares things differently, and personally i agree that ES and RX are something that other luxury brands simply don't have, lexus owns the whole game. but IS and RC not in the compact luxury together with C and 3? i tend to think big part of population would disagree

RXSF

I guess Ill throw out there that the E550 was discontinued last year, so to be fair to the GS F, it will be faster than the E400

LOWFAST

I like it sans the wheels. We will probably pick one up used in a few years as we will need the space with our growing boys, it is already hard to fit them both in the back of the ISF. We have loved the ISF even though it is not the fastest sports sedan out there, not is it the fastest car we have ever owned. Hope the GSF price stays reasonable and there are enough sold to pick up a nice used example. I dread ever buying an M or AMG and the costs associated with maintaining it. Although I think the M6 4 door is dead sexy.

theory816

Car looks great and is everything I expected. The GS is a car aimed at guys aged 25-35 who wants luxury and now they can have a bit more power. Lexus has never really set out to beat any other cars in performance. So what you have here is perfect blend. Im going to guess this car will be priced 65-75k

Lexuslvr91

Honestly in this class it isn't about having a bit more power. That's what S6s, 550i Sports, CTS V-Sports and XF Supercharges are for.

Why can't Lexus set out to beat any other cars in performance? Is this really what we expect of Lexus?

The fact that Lexus has already produced 2 F variants that competed DIRECTLY with their respected competitors leaves everyone no choice but to compare the GS-F to the same respective competitors.

IS-F...C63...RS4...M3...ATS-V
RC-F...C63...RS5...M4...ATS-V
GS-F...E63...not sold in America...M5...CTS-V

Lexus has raised our awareness of its F products that compete directly with other M, RS, V and AMG products.