Another German guy leaves for Hyundai
12-23-14, 05:35 PM
#19
The pursuit of F
12-23-14, 05:47 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by dseag2
In 20 years, Lexus, Hyundai and Kia may command price premiums over the Germans
That is, unless the German fanboys are so locked into the brand they can't see that there are much better cars available.
That is, unless the German fanboys are so locked into the brand they can't see that there are much better cars available.
12-23-14, 06:36 PM
#21
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The biggest changes for the Genesis centers on its handling dynamics. Hyundai partnered with the gurus at Lotus for this new generation's development, but, technically, this model is not Lotus-tuned. Rather, the Brits acted more as consultants who helped to translate consumer desires into engineering terms.
Try again good sir.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/08/2...w-first-drive/
12-23-14, 06:48 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Even on the more performance-oriented 5.0L RWD version (which I reviewed) ride smoothness is markedly improved over the previous version. But it does not have what I'd call sport-sedan handling by any means......it is clearly (now) much more comfort-oriented than sport-oriented.
12-23-14, 07:23 PM
#23
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I think what's interesting is that I never thought that a Sonata or Optima would get my attention on styling alone. But these are fwd cars. When Hyundai intro'd the Genesis, it was an astonishing leap.
Anytime I hear a Bimmer 5 series compared to a Genesis, that's going to be interesting. What's happened is that the German car manufacturers stopped building solid reliable cars. Who is going to own a 3 or 5 without a warranty.
I don't think the Asian cars are quite there yet but in a matter of three decades, they've done a heck of a turn on the Germans. Lexus led the charge but stopped paying attention after that.
Anytime I hear a Bimmer 5 series compared to a Genesis, that's going to be interesting. What's happened is that the German car manufacturers stopped building solid reliable cars. Who is going to own a 3 or 5 without a warranty.
I don't think the Asian cars are quite there yet but in a matter of three decades, they've done a heck of a turn on the Germans. Lexus led the charge but stopped paying attention after that.
12-23-14, 07:45 PM
#24
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Even on the more performance-oriented 5.0L RWD version (which I reviewed) ride smoothness is markedly improved over the previous version. But it does not have what I'd call sport-sedan handling by any means......it is clearly (now) much more comfort-oriented than sport-oriented.
As far as handling dynamics I seems like they were talking about overall driving dynamics.
12-23-14, 07:55 PM
#25
Lead Lap
The biggest changes for the Genesis centers on its handling dynamics. Hyundai partnered with the gurus at Lotus for this new generation's development, but, technically, this model is not Lotus-tuned. Rather, the Brits acted more as consultants who helped to translate consumer desires into engineering terms.
Try again good sir.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/08/2...w-first-drive/
Try again good sir.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/08/2...w-first-drive/
About the Genesis- As Car and Driver pointed out below, the car was significantly improved after Lotus was brought in. Talent doesn't just encompass the physical ability to make changes, but the ability to take the whole picture into perspective.
Originally Posted by Car and Driver
The car was actually remarkably improved after that work. [Lotus] could create data and analytics that would show here’s what the car is doing, here’s what the competitors’ cars do, here’s what we think you need to do based on your target buyer and what they want, and then here’s a specific list of things from an engineering perspective to achieve it. Our engineers made all the changes. It was a consultancy role. Lotus did a lot of work in the area of steering, as well, to help us get something that felt much more natural.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-hy...oit-auto-show/
Last edited by TangoRed; 12-23-14 at 07:59 PM.
12-23-14, 09:26 PM
#26
The GS-F is the only addition and while I suppose it is 'in the pipeline', it's been rumored forever and ultimately it's still only playing catchup with the Germans. Plus, the low production volume of the RC-F is a farce, so if they do the same thing with the GS-F...
I do agree the 3IS F-Sport is really good, but I never think of those as real performance (just like I think M Sport is stupid from a branding perspective.) I mean, if that's all Biermann does at Hyundai, well, good luck with that.
Meanwhile, BMW and MB took huge steps forward with the i8 and GT. I think Lexus had a lot of chances to capitalize here and is failing to do so, and my point re: the OP is that without backing from corporate, even the best engineers won't be able to make much impact.
I do agree the 3IS F-Sport is really good, but I never think of those as real performance (just like I think M Sport is stupid from a branding perspective.) I mean, if that's all Biermann does at Hyundai, well, good luck with that.
Meanwhile, BMW and MB took huge steps forward with the i8 and GT. I think Lexus had a lot of chances to capitalize here and is failing to do so, and my point re: the OP is that without backing from corporate, even the best engineers won't be able to make much impact.
It makes no sense and it is not grounded in reality at all.
There is no need to automatically assume worst about Lexus and glorify literally everyone else.
RC-F was built from grounds up as RC-F model, with 100% backing from corporate... GS-F is being revealed next month and IS-F/LS-F are rumored to be coming in next years.
Everything we have known for past 3-4 years is that corporate is actually 100% behind push of new sporty models, sport versions, and every decision they make is based on that. Everything else is complete misinformation.
So I have no idea why should we call RC-F a "farce" and 3cly BMW a "huge step forward", and why would you think that Hyundai is going to do more than F brand, which is actually impossible in next 10-15 years.
12-24-14, 01:18 AM
#27
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
If you don't skip key parts of my sentences, hopefully you'll understand that my point was not "to automatically assume worst about Lexus and glorify literally everyone else", but instead to point out that it is very hard for individuals - even those who are capable of designing cars as good as the IS-F/RC-F/LFA/etc. - to institute change within large corporations if they do not have the backing of the people who run the show. That's why I think expectations for Albert Biermann at Hyundai should be tempered.
12-24-14, 01:44 AM
#28
Please re-read, more carefully this time - I said the "low production volume of the RC-F is a farce" (highlight added). I made no commentary about the RC-F itself, which I think has proven to be an excellent car.
If you don't skip key parts of my sentences, hopefully you'll understand that my point was not "to automatically assume worst about Lexus and glorify literally everyone else", but instead to point out that it is very hard for individuals - even those who are capable of designing cars as good as the IS-F/RC-F/LFA/etc. - to institute change within large corporations if they do not have the backing of the people who run the show. That's why I think expectations for Albert Biermann at Hyundai should be tempered.
If you don't skip key parts of my sentences, hopefully you'll understand that my point was not "to automatically assume worst about Lexus and glorify literally everyone else", but instead to point out that it is very hard for individuals - even those who are capable of designing cars as good as the IS-F/RC-F/LFA/etc. - to institute change within large corporations if they do not have the backing of the people who run the show. That's why I think expectations for Albert Biermann at Hyundai should be tempered.
And how is Lexus not backing F, when they are fully backing F and they completely changed their priorities that push such cars.
You are simply incorrect.
At the same time you are expecting that Hyundai is changing their company around hiring one engineer.
Pretty much confirms what I said.
12-24-14, 02:54 AM
#29
This may help the brand, but I doubt it will make any changes in the sales department. Just look at Lexus, to this day, many people cannot accept Lexus as performance / sport oriented brand. Even after the release of the LFA. What other asian brand ever released a car like that? Lexus is also more prestige than Hyundai. So, I think it will take many years until Hyundai will get recognized.
12-24-14, 03:10 AM
#30
Lead Lap
The Koreans can have their own Operation Paper Clip and ****** all the German engineers, maybe it will leave some ordinary guys in Germany to give German cars some soul. Nobody thought it would ever happen, but today the Japanese make a much more "charactered" car than the Europeans and very reliable as well.
By the way I'm not Japanese, but from European descent.
By the way I'm not Japanese, but from European descent.
