2016 Cadillac CTS-V arrives with 640 hp, 200-mph top speed
12-22-14, 09:44 AM
#32
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To be fair, this CTS V is very impressive on paper and I have no doubt that it may well prove to be the best performance sedan of the group (incredible engine, low-ish weight and Cadillac's amazing magnetic ride control technology.)
However, since everyone is murdering the GS F based on fictional specs, lets take a quick look at the CTS V's competitive set:
Cadillac CTS V:
4,150 lbs
640hp/630 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 3.7 seconds
HP-to-weight ratio: 6.5 lbs per hp
Audi S6:
4,398 lbs
420hp/406 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 4.5 seconds (tested at 3.7)
HP-to-weight ratio: 10.5 lbs per hp
Audi RS7:
4,475 lbs
560hp/516 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 3.7 seconds (tested at 3.4)
HP-to-weight ratio: 8 lbs per hp
BMW M5:
4,387 lbs
560 - 575hp/500 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 4.2 seconds (tested at 3.7)
HP-to-weight ratio: 7.7 lbs per hp
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG 4Matic
4,674 lbs
550hp/531 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 3.6 seconds (tested at 4.0)
HP-to-weight ratio: 8.5 lbs per hp
Jaguar XFR-S
4,380 lbs
550 hp/502 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 4.4 seconds
HP-to-weight ratio: 8 lbs per hp
Jaguar XFR
4,134 lbs
510 hp/ 461 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 4.7 seconds (tested at 4.0)
HP-to-weight ratio: 8.1 lbs per hp
If you are a spec racer, the CTS V quite simply blows everything else out of the water. Period. Anyone spec racing these cars will list their M5s and E63s for sale TODAY and place an order for a CTS V. After all, why on earth would you buy a car with less horsepower than one that is available with as much as 640 hp? Fools!
However, in the real world, if you bought a CTS V, there's a very good chance that an 80hp less powerful M5 or 220hp less powerful S6 could keep up with you nose-to-nose from a dig. Don't try lining up with an RS7, as that Audi has been tested as low as 3.4 seconds 0-60. The Jaguar XFR-S's 4.4 second estimate for 0-60 has been called "conservative" by most magazines, and the "lowly 510hp" XFR has been clocked .7 seconds faster than the manufacturer's estimated time of 4.7 seconds. Do the math there, and the XFR-S could also be door-to-door with your CTS V early in a race, though the CTS V would surely start to walk away as the pavement opens up. Let's also not lose sight of the fact that Mercedes quotes the E63 AMG 4Matic's 0-60 time faster than what Cadillac quotes for the CTS V... interesting!
If this seems like a heavy dose of alphabet soup mixed in with senseless numbers, that's pretty much exactly what it is. The predominant thought process here and elsewhere seems to be that people who own an S6, XFR or XFR-S will be laughed out of Chilis on a Friday night because they could have bought something faster in an M5 or E63. The reality is that many of these actual buyers are looking for something that moves the needle a little further for their favorite brand, or an emotional design that appeals to their eye, or an overall experience/package that says, "Gotta have it."
The guy who bought his first A4 ten years ago, has been happily upgrading to A6s and just got the VP promotion and wants something a little more raw... He buys an S6. The guy who has had a few Jaguars but left the brand for Lexus or Mercedes sees something with some attitude and grit and comes back to Jag for an XFR. The guy who owned LSs for two decades, has been very happy with Lexus, just sent his last kid off to college and wants something with more performance and edge... he buys a GS F.
This is how people really buy these cars. They do not come into the BMW dealership, slap down the Cadillac CTS V press release on a sales manager's desk and demand that BMW buys back their M5 Competition Pack because it's no longer the fastest car on the block. They do not jump onto mbworld and trash talk the E63 4Matic the day that the CTS V comes out, same for bimmerfest and the M5.
I know it's a lot of fun to sit behind a computer screen and compare specs, but when you factor in real world buying decisions and you talk to actual buyers (even in this class of car), specs are not as important as we make them seem. A lot of it is emotional and about how the car looks, feels and sounds. What is the overall experience like? Sure, it's fast. From the driver's seat, an M5 or E63 or XFR or S6 all feel similarly "fast" and your average buyer doesn't bring performance equipment on a test drive, or make an excel chart of quoted/tested performance figures.
If anything, the list above represents a very interesting and absolutely distinct array of flavors and tastes for the discerning buyer: rear wheel drive, all wheel drive, turbocharged, supercharged, raw straight-line acceleration, cornering prowess, Jaguar, Cadillac, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, the list goes on.
My point in this long post is that if you're going to disregard the GS F based on the "around 500 hp" spec, then I assume that with Cadillac now throwing the gauntlet at 640hp, everything else is "less than" as well. However, the reality is that BMW will continue to sell M5s, Mercedes will still move E63s, Audi will keep building and selling S6s and with a car like the GS F, Lexus will draw a whole new type of buyer - probably many of them from inside the brand - but probably also a handful who used to have modded GS 430s and left for an M5, or someone who is sick of AMG repair bills and is willing to give up some horsepower for reliability.
Congratulations to Cadillac for building one of the most powerful sedans on the planet -ever. Thank you to BMW and Mercedes who drove this segment for decades and made it what it is today. Kudos to Audi and Jaguar for jumping in and offering unique formulas that have appealed to their buyers and spiced up the segment. Welcome, Lexus, to the party. If you can't look at all of these cars and appreciate them for what they offer or represent - from 420 to 640 hp - then you're worse a fanboy than anyone.
However, since everyone is murdering the GS F based on fictional specs, lets take a quick look at the CTS V's competitive set:
Cadillac CTS V:
4,150 lbs
640hp/630 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 3.7 seconds
HP-to-weight ratio: 6.5 lbs per hp
Audi S6:
4,398 lbs
420hp/406 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 4.5 seconds (tested at 3.7)
HP-to-weight ratio: 10.5 lbs per hp
Audi RS7:
4,475 lbs
560hp/516 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 3.7 seconds (tested at 3.4)
HP-to-weight ratio: 8 lbs per hp
BMW M5:
4,387 lbs
560 - 575hp/500 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 4.2 seconds (tested at 3.7)
HP-to-weight ratio: 7.7 lbs per hp
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG 4Matic
4,674 lbs
550hp/531 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 3.6 seconds (tested at 4.0)
HP-to-weight ratio: 8.5 lbs per hp
Jaguar XFR-S
4,380 lbs
550 hp/502 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 4.4 seconds
HP-to-weight ratio: 8 lbs per hp
Jaguar XFR
4,134 lbs
510 hp/ 461 lb-ft of torque
0-60 in 4.7 seconds (tested at 4.0)
HP-to-weight ratio: 8.1 lbs per hp
If you are a spec racer, the CTS V quite simply blows everything else out of the water. Period. Anyone spec racing these cars will list their M5s and E63s for sale TODAY and place an order for a CTS V. After all, why on earth would you buy a car with less horsepower than one that is available with as much as 640 hp? Fools!
However, in the real world, if you bought a CTS V, there's a very good chance that an 80hp less powerful M5 or 220hp less powerful S6 could keep up with you nose-to-nose from a dig. Don't try lining up with an RS7, as that Audi has been tested as low as 3.4 seconds 0-60. The Jaguar XFR-S's 4.4 second estimate for 0-60 has been called "conservative" by most magazines, and the "lowly 510hp" XFR has been clocked .7 seconds faster than the manufacturer's estimated time of 4.7 seconds. Do the math there, and the XFR-S could also be door-to-door with your CTS V early in a race, though the CTS V would surely start to walk away as the pavement opens up. Let's also not lose sight of the fact that Mercedes quotes the E63 AMG 4Matic's 0-60 time faster than what Cadillac quotes for the CTS V... interesting!
If this seems like a heavy dose of alphabet soup mixed in with senseless numbers, that's pretty much exactly what it is. The predominant thought process here and elsewhere seems to be that people who own an S6, XFR or XFR-S will be laughed out of Chilis on a Friday night because they could have bought something faster in an M5 or E63. The reality is that many of these actual buyers are looking for something that moves the needle a little further for their favorite brand, or an emotional design that appeals to their eye, or an overall experience/package that says, "Gotta have it."
The guy who bought his first A4 ten years ago, has been happily upgrading to A6s and just got the VP promotion and wants something a little more raw... He buys an S6. The guy who has had a few Jaguars but left the brand for Lexus or Mercedes sees something with some attitude and grit and comes back to Jag for an XFR. The guy who owned LSs for two decades, has been very happy with Lexus, just sent his last kid off to college and wants something with more performance and edge... he buys a GS F.
This is how people really buy these cars. They do not come into the BMW dealership, slap down the Cadillac CTS V press release on a sales manager's desk and demand that BMW buys back their M5 Competition Pack because it's no longer the fastest car on the block. They do not jump onto mbworld and trash talk the E63 4Matic the day that the CTS V comes out, same for bimmerfest and the M5.
I know it's a lot of fun to sit behind a computer screen and compare specs, but when you factor in real world buying decisions and you talk to actual buyers (even in this class of car), specs are not as important as we make them seem. A lot of it is emotional and about how the car looks, feels and sounds. What is the overall experience like? Sure, it's fast. From the driver's seat, an M5 or E63 or XFR or S6 all feel similarly "fast" and your average buyer doesn't bring performance equipment on a test drive, or make an excel chart of quoted/tested performance figures.
If anything, the list above represents a very interesting and absolutely distinct array of flavors and tastes for the discerning buyer: rear wheel drive, all wheel drive, turbocharged, supercharged, raw straight-line acceleration, cornering prowess, Jaguar, Cadillac, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, the list goes on.
My point in this long post is that if you're going to disregard the GS F based on the "around 500 hp" spec, then I assume that with Cadillac now throwing the gauntlet at 640hp, everything else is "less than" as well. However, the reality is that BMW will continue to sell M5s, Mercedes will still move E63s, Audi will keep building and selling S6s and with a car like the GS F, Lexus will draw a whole new type of buyer - probably many of them from inside the brand - but probably also a handful who used to have modded GS 430s and left for an M5, or someone who is sick of AMG repair bills and is willing to give up some horsepower for reliability.
Congratulations to Cadillac for building one of the most powerful sedans on the planet -ever. Thank you to BMW and Mercedes who drove this segment for decades and made it what it is today. Kudos to Audi and Jaguar for jumping in and offering unique formulas that have appealed to their buyers and spiced up the segment. Welcome, Lexus, to the party. If you can't look at all of these cars and appreciate them for what they offer or represent - from 420 to 640 hp - then you're worse a fanboy than anyone.
12-22-14, 10:01 AM
#33
Lead Lap
12-22-14, 11:01 AM
#34
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I was also confused. This is a quoted prediction for the CTS-V acceleration and is likely conservatives just as all of those other ares are? Who knows maybe someone can shave off .7 seconds like they did with the Jaguar. We don't know. Also what happens once the supposed benefits of AWD no longer apply? Also most of the 0-60 figures of these cars are with the help of launch control
And another thing has anyone seen the track times of current GM performance vehicles? The Camaro Z/28 regularly shames much more expensive vehicles on the track and that's with the relative lack of power and added heft. If the current CTS V-Sport is any indication of performance and handling/ride quality then this CTS-V should continue to set the bar among the high performance sedan class
And another thing has anyone seen the track times of current GM performance vehicles? The Camaro Z/28 regularly shames much more expensive vehicles on the track and that's with the relative lack of power and added heft. If the current CTS V-Sport is any indication of performance and handling/ride quality then this CTS-V should continue to set the bar among the high performance sedan class
12-22-14, 01:09 PM
#35
With that said, the GSF better cometh with no less than 500hp or it is not worthy of this segment or the F badge for that matter. Call it the GS 500 F sport. It would still be an awesome car, just not worthy of the F badge. Agree, disagree... Doesn't matter. That's my unsolicited 2 pennies and I'm sticking to it.
12-22-14, 05:33 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
bottom line all these cars are awesome with different flavors.
a 500HP GS-F will be awesome in its own way, it just won't quite generate the buzz we'd like to see, but that's ok, lexus always takes the long view...
having said that, the LFA was intended to make everyone's jaw drop, and unfortunately it didn't really, which i think is disappointing because i personally was in awe of the LFA when i got my spin in it and saw it up close.
but lexus at least has its product tiers straight now with regular, f-sport and f, setting the stage for even bigger things down the road.
a 500HP GS-F will be awesome in its own way, it just won't quite generate the buzz we'd like to see, but that's ok, lexus always takes the long view...
having said that, the LFA was intended to make everyone's jaw drop, and unfortunately it didn't really, which i think is disappointing because i personally was in awe of the LFA when i got my spin in it and saw it up close.
but lexus at least has its product tiers straight now with regular, f-sport and f, setting the stage for even bigger things down the road.
12-22-14, 05:46 PM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
bottom line all these cars are awesome with different flavors.
a 500HP GS-F will be awesome in its own way, it just won't quite generate the buzz we'd like to see, but that's ok, lexus always takes the long view...
having said that, the LFA was intended to make everyone's jaw drop, and unfortunately it didn't really, which i think is disappointing because i personally was in awe of the LFA when i got my spin in it and saw it up close.
but lexus at least has its product tiers straight now with regular, f-sport and f, setting the stage for even bigger things down the road.
a 500HP GS-F will be awesome in its own way, it just won't quite generate the buzz we'd like to see, but that's ok, lexus always takes the long view...
having said that, the LFA was intended to make everyone's jaw drop, and unfortunately it didn't really, which i think is disappointing because i personally was in awe of the LFA when i got my spin in it and saw it up close.
but lexus at least has its product tiers straight now with regular, f-sport and f, setting the stage for even bigger things down the road.
Hell anyone would be thrilled to own ANY of the following:
M5, RS7, E63AMG-S, CTS-V
They are all GREAT and pretty evenly matched, it really comes down to personal preference.
Hopefully GS-F can be in that group as well.
It is really hard to find bad cars anymore - even Hyundais and Kias are making cool stuff!
Auto industry is in its prime right now.......
12-22-14, 07:39 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
I applaude Cadillac for stepping up, but in the end some old guy in expand-a-waist pants will be buying it because he can afford it, and he will not be able to explore the limits of its performance because he lives in the wealthy burbs where the speed limit is at most 45 MPH and traffic is heavy. Are there that many people with that kind of money that track their cars? Ultimately it is a halo car for Cadillac to help bring in younger buyers, but whether it beats the S6, E63, M5, etc. doesn't really mean anything because very few people can even enjoy that horsepower to its full potential, so like an earlier poster said they will most likely stick with their brand of choice.
I would choose the GS F over all of the aforementioned cars because I would like to stay with Lexus, but in reality I can barely use the power in my GS F Sport because so many people are driving distracted and plodding along at less than the speed limit. It is good for weaving in and out though.
I would choose the GS F over all of the aforementioned cars because I would like to stay with Lexus, but in reality I can barely use the power in my GS F Sport because so many people are driving distracted and plodding along at less than the speed limit. It is good for weaving in and out though.
Last edited by dseag2; 12-22-14 at 07:43 PM.
01-14-15, 09:57 AM
#43
2016 Cadillac CTS-V
Click here to view live photos
At recent auto show appearances, Cadillac has been clear about the German luxury cars in its sights. This continues with the 2016 Cadillac CTS-V, the third incarnation and most direct shot at Ms and AMGs.
It helps to have a good-looking base. The current CTS works well with the styling Cadillac is promoting right now – lots of chrome and LEDs, but classier than before. And this new CTS-V's larger wheels, mesh grille and deeper fascia don't fuss up the design too much.
That said, the available carbon fiber appearance package shown on one of the cars at the Detroit Auto Show made the car look fussier than necessary. Or maybe that was because it was on the CTS-V with the matte white paint that looked super attractive on the ATS-V Coupe shown in LA a couple months ago.
The interior retains the standard CTS's design, but there's a great big helping of carbon fiber trim and Ultrasuede or whatever they'd like to call it here. If you were on a track trying to use as much of the supercharged 6.2-liter V8's 640 horsepower as possible, though, the optional Recaro front seats might be worth it.
Cadillac's leaders seem adamant this car is about awesome performance, and all stats point to it being a lighter, stronger rival to the M5 and E63. And for the moment, Cadillac may have made the most seductive one. Coming from an M5, the CTS-V is a nice reminder that a large sports sedan doesn't have to bulge in strange places.
On the face of it, Cadillac appears to have finally built a big, fast German sedan.
It helps to have a good-looking base. The current CTS works well with the styling Cadillac is promoting right now – lots of chrome and LEDs, but classier than before. And this new CTS-V's larger wheels, mesh grille and deeper fascia don't fuss up the design too much.
That said, the available carbon fiber appearance package shown on one of the cars at the Detroit Auto Show made the car look fussier than necessary. Or maybe that was because it was on the CTS-V with the matte white paint that looked super attractive on the ATS-V Coupe shown in LA a couple months ago.
The interior retains the standard CTS's design, but there's a great big helping of carbon fiber trim and Ultrasuede or whatever they'd like to call it here. If you were on a track trying to use as much of the supercharged 6.2-liter V8's 640 horsepower as possible, though, the optional Recaro front seats might be worth it.
Cadillac's leaders seem adamant this car is about awesome performance, and all stats point to it being a lighter, stronger rival to the M5 and E63. And for the moment, Cadillac may have made the most seductive one. Coming from an M5, the CTS-V is a nice reminder that a large sports sedan doesn't have to bulge in strange places.
On the face of it, Cadillac appears to have finally built a big, fast German sedan.
01-14-15, 10:37 AM
#44
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2016 Cadillac CTS-V does some smokey burnouts [video]
Has a supercharged 6.2-liter V8 engine with 640 bhp
Cadillac has released a new video of the 2016 CTS-V.
Apparently shot at the Michigan Theater in Detroit, the clip shows the car doing some smokey burnouts in the historic building which has been converted into a parking garage.
As we reported yesterday, the 2016 Cadillac CTS-V has a supercharged 6.2-liter V8 engine that develops 640 bhp (477 kW) and 630 lb-ft (855 Nm) of torque. It is connected to an eight-speed automatic transmission which enables the sedan to accelerate from 0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds before hitting a top speed of 200 mph (322 km/h).
Cadillac has released a new video of the 2016 CTS-V.
Apparently shot at the Michigan Theater in Detroit, the clip shows the car doing some smokey burnouts in the historic building which has been converted into a parking garage.
As we reported yesterday, the 2016 Cadillac CTS-V has a supercharged 6.2-liter V8 engine that develops 640 bhp (477 kW) and 630 lb-ft (855 Nm) of torque. It is connected to an eight-speed automatic transmission which enables the sedan to accelerate from 0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds before hitting a top speed of 200 mph (322 km/h).
01-14-15, 11:01 AM
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