A question about "platforms"
12-11-14, 03:41 PM
#1
A question about "platforms"
Being a car enthusiast since the era of the 300ZX(yes im sorta young-ish) i've heard the term platform probably about a million times already. To be clear, i do have a basic understanding when they use this term. For instance, Avalon/ES350 shared the same platform. Now that being the case, these cars are based on a Camry platform but is stretched. So is the Highlander/RX and Venza maybe. Everything seems to be based on this platform. Now what makes the RX platform different from the NX's? What denotes a car to have a certain platform? Is it engine layout? F/RWD? Is it the way the suspension and steering bolt up to the frame? Car electronics set up? All the above? If thats the case, is the Corolla a shorten version of the Camry platform or is it altogether different? I maybe over thinking this question but i'd thought i'd ask anyways. 
12-11-14, 04:24 PM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
a platform can be designed to support multiple engines and driven wheels, although a platform wouldn't be designed to be fwd AND rwd. a platform, like its name infers, can be built upon, with unique body design (including body type like sedan and suv), touch points, and trims.
a platform is a design with built in flexible/variable parameters so it can be manufactured with different wheel base lengths for example and incorporate optional strengthening features (to handle increased weight, or improve handling, etc.).
to answer your last question, the corolla is likely a different platform than the camry, because each has an entire model range and sells in vast numbers, so there's no real need to share a platform between two pretty different sized vehicles. with shared platforms comes shared costs, but also shared compromises.
platforms are part of a business strategy, balancing manufacturing and design complexity, with product range, costs, budgets, and targets.
yeah it's not simple...
a platform is a design with built in flexible/variable parameters so it can be manufactured with different wheel base lengths for example and incorporate optional strengthening features (to handle increased weight, or improve handling, etc.).
to answer your last question, the corolla is likely a different platform than the camry, because each has an entire model range and sells in vast numbers, so there's no real need to share a platform between two pretty different sized vehicles. with shared platforms comes shared costs, but also shared compromises.
platforms are part of a business strategy, balancing manufacturing and design complexity, with product range, costs, budgets, and targets.
yeah it's not simple...
12-11-14, 04:54 PM
#3
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
Platform is a concept with far too many subtleties to address succinctly on a message board, although bitkahuna did a pretty good job. Would suggest the wikipedia as a starting point:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_platform
Just to note, the RX uses the Toyota K platform, same as the Camry/Avalon/ES. NX uses the smaller MC platform, same as the Rav4/Prius/Corolla/CT.
Also just noticed that wiki article has a link to a list of Toyota platforms, but it actually links to a list of vehicle codes, not platforms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_platform
Just to note, the RX uses the Toyota K platform, same as the Camry/Avalon/ES. NX uses the smaller MC platform, same as the Rav4/Prius/Corolla/CT.
Also just noticed that wiki article has a link to a list of Toyota platforms, but it actually links to a list of vehicle codes, not platforms.
12-11-14, 05:16 PM
#4
Platform is very loose concept these days... new VW and upcoming Toyota global platforms means that most of their cars will be built from a single platform with great variations.
In the past platform would mean that cars would share many parts, chasis, etc... basically just differ in looks. This is what most people think when they say platform sharing even if it is not really true, and will be even less true in the future.
In the past platform would mean that cars would share many parts, chasis, etc... basically just differ in looks. This is what most people think when they say platform sharing even if it is not really true, and will be even less true in the future.
12-11-14, 06:59 PM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
One must also differentiate a "platform" from simple, cookie-cutter "Badge Engineering", which was little more than simply cloning and attaching different logos on the trunk and hood of virtually the same car. We saw that among American manufacturers big-time in the 70s and 80s, with twins such as the Ford Fairmont/Mercury Zephyr, Dodge Aspen/Plymouth Volare, Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon, Ford Granada/Mercury Monarch, Chevy Vega/Pontiac Astre, etc.....
Today, of course, manufacturers can't get away with that as much, because many buyers are more astute. Some examples still remain, though, like with some Opel and Buick sedans, which significantly differ only in their drivetrains.
Today, of course, manufacturers can't get away with that as much, because many buyers are more astute. Some examples still remain, though, like with some Opel and Buick sedans, which significantly differ only in their drivetrains.
12-11-14, 07:25 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
At one time, platform-sharing meant a different "top hat". The hidden greasy bits underneath -- the engine, suspension, wheelbase, etc. -- would be the same but the body (or badge) on top would be different.
It meant that 2 or more different vehicles that shared a platform could be built side-by-side on the same assembly line (but this means much less these days with flexible manufacturing lines where 2 or more completely different vehicles can be built on the same line).
It also meant that parts and processes developed for one car will fit on a different car that shares its platform. I seem to remember a problem with the Pontiac G6 Convertible. The G6 shared the Epsilon platform with cars such as the Chevy Malibu, Saturn Aura, Saab 9-3 and Opel Signum. The story was that the Convertible would use parts and processes developed in Europe for the Epsilon platform cars, making the design and building of the G6 Convertible a much easier affair. Unfortunately, so the story goes, because work on the Epsilon platform had progressed separately in Europe and North America, the parts and processes developed in Europe were not easily transferable to North America, not without some major rework.
But these days, the term "platform" has morphed into something different. VW and Toyota are, arguably, the 2 best automakers when it comes to designing flexible platforms. VW has modular platforms that plug and play different sub-assemblies, so that 1 platform can accomodate either a transverse (FWD) engine or a longitudinal (traditionally RWD) engine and transmission, done by plugging in a different engine cradle sub-assembly. Platform-sharing has morphed into parts-sharing.
Camry and Corolla, for instance, have always been on different platforms but the new Toyota New Global Architecture can be extended to build both the Corolla and the Camry. The next Prius, I believe, will be the first to use TNGA. Toyota is doing this to cut development costs. Develop parts and assembly processes for the TNGA Corolla and they will fit the TNGA Camry and TNGA Prius also, and parts-sharing will mean much more than the obvious common outside door handle and steering wheel that can now be shared by Corolla and Camry (and Prius).
It meant that 2 or more different vehicles that shared a platform could be built side-by-side on the same assembly line (but this means much less these days with flexible manufacturing lines where 2 or more completely different vehicles can be built on the same line).
It also meant that parts and processes developed for one car will fit on a different car that shares its platform. I seem to remember a problem with the Pontiac G6 Convertible. The G6 shared the Epsilon platform with cars such as the Chevy Malibu, Saturn Aura, Saab 9-3 and Opel Signum. The story was that the Convertible would use parts and processes developed in Europe for the Epsilon platform cars, making the design and building of the G6 Convertible a much easier affair. Unfortunately, so the story goes, because work on the Epsilon platform had progressed separately in Europe and North America, the parts and processes developed in Europe were not easily transferable to North America, not without some major rework.
But these days, the term "platform" has morphed into something different. VW and Toyota are, arguably, the 2 best automakers when it comes to designing flexible platforms. VW has modular platforms that plug and play different sub-assemblies, so that 1 platform can accomodate either a transverse (FWD) engine or a longitudinal (traditionally RWD) engine and transmission, done by plugging in a different engine cradle sub-assembly. Platform-sharing has morphed into parts-sharing.
Camry and Corolla, for instance, have always been on different platforms but the new Toyota New Global Architecture can be extended to build both the Corolla and the Camry. The next Prius, I believe, will be the first to use TNGA. Toyota is doing this to cut development costs. Develop parts and assembly processes for the TNGA Corolla and they will fit the TNGA Camry and TNGA Prius also, and parts-sharing will mean much more than the obvious common outside door handle and steering wheel that can now be shared by Corolla and Camry (and Prius).
12-11-14, 07:30 PM
#7
Lexus Champion
A problem with more parts-sharing will be that recalls will be even more massive than they are now. It is not uncommon now to see Toyota recalls cover many models -- Camry, Avalon, ES, Highlander, RX, Sienna, for example -- as the same faulty part is used on many different but shared-platform models.
But in the future, with even more models sharing parts under TNGA, we could theoretically see a recall of 1 part cover the whole lineup (well all cars or all trucks, since unibody cars and body-on-frame trucks will still be different platforms).
But in the future, with even more models sharing parts under TNGA, we could theoretically see a recall of 1 part cover the whole lineup (well all cars or all trucks, since unibody cars and body-on-frame trucks will still be different platforms).
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12-11-14, 09:54 PM
#8
Yes VW is very effective with designs that can accommodate VAG brands like VW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley and Lamborghini. Until recently many shared similar dash silhouettes, controls.. But some better differentiation recently has given each stronger identities some through design others by names like Quattro, 911.
Ford, GM, Fiat-Chrysler, Renault, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Tata.. They all do it lol
Ford, GM, Fiat-Chrysler, Renault, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Tata.. They all do it lol
12-12-14, 06:34 AM
#9
I can tell you that Lotus and Aston uses similar chassis technology, and that the "platform" between all the Lotus: elise, exige, evora are the same.
Aston uses what they called a VH platform (copied from lotus) and all the modern aston (cept the One77) uses the same platform (vantage, db9, dbs, virage, vanquish).
Using Aston as example, the VH platform is just the primary aluminum tub formed by extruded aluminum glued together. While each car's aluminum bits are slightly different (bigger, longer etc), they are overall the same in the way that they go together. And though the car uses different front and rear subframes, the primary part of the chassis, the tub, can be referred to as sharing the same "platform"
Hope that makes sense.
Aston uses what they called a VH platform (copied from lotus) and all the modern aston (cept the One77) uses the same platform (vantage, db9, dbs, virage, vanquish).
Using Aston as example, the VH platform is just the primary aluminum tub formed by extruded aluminum glued together. While each car's aluminum bits are slightly different (bigger, longer etc), they are overall the same in the way that they go together. And though the car uses different front and rear subframes, the primary part of the chassis, the tub, can be referred to as sharing the same "platform"
Hope that makes sense.
12-12-14, 06:44 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
12-12-14, 06:50 AM
#11
Mike, believe it or not the Aston is not that "heavy". The fact my aston has a v8, with a full leather, metal, and alcantera interior, and is still lighter than my Lexus IS is a testament to how much weight saving they put into it. The car uses a carbon fiber drive shaft, dang.
Where both brands deviate are in the details, whereas the lotus is flimsy the aston is solid (interior wise). Lotus will get by with the min amount of insulation, whereas the aston's wheel well liners have extra foam coating to dampen sound etc.
Where both brands deviate are in the details, whereas the lotus is flimsy the aston is solid (interior wise). Lotus will get by with the min amount of insulation, whereas the aston's wheel well liners have extra foam coating to dampen sound etc.
12-12-14, 10:26 AM
#12
I can tell you that Lotus and Aston uses similar chassis technology, and that the "platform" between all the Lotus: elise, exige, evora are the same.
Aston uses what they called a VH platform (copied from lotus) and all the modern aston (cept the One77) uses the same platform (vantage, db9, dbs, virage, vanquish).
Using Aston as example, the VH platform is just the primary aluminum tub formed by extruded aluminum glued together. While each car's aluminum bits are slightly different (bigger, longer etc), they are overall the same in the way that they go together. And though the car uses different front and rear subframes, the primary part of the chassis, the tub, can be referred to as sharing the same "platform"
Hope that makes sense.
Aston uses what they called a VH platform (copied from lotus) and all the modern aston (cept the One77) uses the same platform (vantage, db9, dbs, virage, vanquish).
Using Aston as example, the VH platform is just the primary aluminum tub formed by extruded aluminum glued together. While each car's aluminum bits are slightly different (bigger, longer etc), they are overall the same in the way that they go together. And though the car uses different front and rear subframes, the primary part of the chassis, the tub, can be referred to as sharing the same "platform"
Hope that makes sense.
12-12-14, 12:34 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Mike, believe it or not the Aston is not that "heavy". The fact my aston has a v8, with a full leather, metal, and alcantera interior, and is still lighter than my Lexus IS is a testament to how much weight saving they put into it. The car uses a carbon fiber drive shaft, dang.
Where both brands deviate are in the details, whereas the lotus is flimsy the aston is solid (interior wise). Lotus will get by with the min amount of insulation, whereas the aston's wheel well liners have extra foam coating to dampen sound etc.
Where both brands deviate are in the details, whereas the lotus is flimsy the aston is solid (interior wise). Lotus will get by with the min amount of insulation, whereas the aston's wheel well liners have extra foam coating to dampen sound etc.
Interesting point about Aston's drive-shafts, though.....I wasn't aware of that.
12-12-14, 03:14 PM
#14
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
BTW, the only Lexus IS the V8 Vantage is lighter than is the IS-F, and that's to be expected given the IS-F has a bigger engine and is a four-door four-seater. Of course Aston Martin cars are GTs through and through, so I don't think anyone's too concerned about the weight.
12-12-14, 03:18 PM
#15
I guess when I say same I mean it is essentially carried over from the concept of bonded alumium that the elise and exige uses (which are the same between elise and exige) and therefore sharing a platform. Lotus are pretty notorious for minimizing cost so sharing the tech they developed for the elise is a no brainer.
