SW17LS

Just saw the MotorWeek episode and started another thread without seeing this here.

Thought I would post my thoughts:

I've said for a long time I thought the Camry was a flat out terrible entry in a segment that is constantly improving and one in which buyers are buying more about quality, driving experience, and tech vs reliability than ever before. To me the Camry has become a poster child for Toyota's overconfidence and arrogance...and if they think these sorts of things won't start to make inroads in their sales...they're nuts. With this being the touted early heavy refresh to address all the 2014 Camry's problems...this is very poor, especially compared to cars that have been around a while like the Fusion and the Passat.

mmarshall

While I agree with much of what you say, the latest Camrys probably haven't gone as far downhill as the latest Avalon, with its overly-lightweight thin build-materials, markedly stiffer ride, and, considering the type of people who usually buy it, over-sported chassis/underpinnings. Though the Avalon, for years, was superb at what it did best, in short, Toyota tried to transform the latest version into something it has never been, and is not intended to be.

BTW, the 3Gen 1992-1996 Camrys, I thought, were far and away the best ones ever built. They were solid, refined, rode smoothly, soaked up the bumps, had easy-to-use controls, had the low noise levels (with the V6) of a luxury car, were bullet-tough, reliable, and absolutely delighted millions of buyers. I still see them running around my area with 200K+ miles on them. After the superb 3Gen models, each successive Camry generation seemed to get somewhat thinner, lighter-weight materials, a tinnier overall feel, and more and more cheap plastic inside and out, though that was rectified to some extent with the interior on the last major redesign.

SW17LS

Its examples of the same problem. They have just lost their way in this department. Their interiors feel thin, and cheap...insubstantial. The brittle ride makes the cars feel the same way out on the road too. Hyundai on the other hand gets it. A firm ride isn't my issue, its the insubstantial brittle ride.

My issue is I see that huge in the 6ES, luckily they backed off from that with the IS, RC and looks like with the NX although I have not seen it in person. Aside from that the issues there at Toyota don't seem to carry over to Lexus.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

^Drove the Camry XSE this weekend and really could not disagree more with anything you wrote above. I was a big critic of the 2012 - 2014 model, but this new 2015 Camry is pretty impressive on the road, in person, etc. XSE interior is rivaling Lexus-like levels of detailing and the car is GREAT to drive.

JDR76

Good to hear! I finally saw a new one this weekend, and was happy to see that it represented much better in real life than in pictures. A very nice update indeed.

SW17LS

I'll have to go look at one, but the reviewers above didn't feel the way you did at all...

mmarshall

Actually, except for thinner doors, the 2012-2014 was a significant improvement on the quite disappointing 2006-2011 models, which, IMO, represented the Camry's low point, just as the 1992-1996 models represented their best generation.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

^I think you mean 2007 - 2011, but I definitely disagree there too. Interior quality went down, but that generation of Camry is what really brought some excitement, passion and performance back to the nameplate with a bolder design, the big V6 and top-performing SE model.

To your point though, interior quality was horrible.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Ugly vehicle that will sell anyway.

chikoo

Historically, camry buyers are the ones who desire nothing out of the car except to be invisible to their daily lives ie. no disruptions ie. no nonsense great reliability.

mmarshall

Yes...sorry, a typo on my part, though the 2007 model was actually released in 2006.

Yes, that's primarily what I was referring to. The big climate *****, for example, on the lower-center-dash, were so flimsy that they actually wobbled in your hand as you turned them. I mentioned that in my review of that-generation Camry.

spwolf

yes, and they are buying Camry. It is pretty funny, isnt it.

SW17LS

As a car enthusiast though, I don't want to be a customer of a company that is content to build as crummy a driving appliance as the masses will buy because it says "Camry" on the trunk. I want to be a customer of a company that thinks a little bit more of me than that. Hyundai does. Honda does. Ford does. Chrysler does. Does Toyota? At least for a while there they didn't. The new Camry is a nice style update, but if this review is any indication the substance continues to lack compared to the competition.

It doesn't trouble me too much since I'm not currently a customer in that segment, but I want to see them want to appeal to me on some level other than "its reliable". Thats partly why I find the 6ES so distressing. To me that car is phoned in.

I am going to be shopping for a Minivan in the next 1-2 years (unfortunately). I want to like the Sienna for a lot of reasons, it has the equipment I want (radar cruise mainly), and it is the only van that has AWD. But...while the refresh interior is an improvement over the previous interior (which was terrible), its dough-ey looking. Nothing particularly new or unique. Its between it, the Odyssey, and the new Kia Sedona. The Odyssey and the Sedona are better looking, the Sedona has the tech of the Sienna in a more appealing package, and it has some neat unique features like a real console, actual nappa leather and such. The Odyssey is much better looking, has neat new tech like the built in vacuum.

I'd like to see an ad for a Toyota that has something to say other than "...its a Toyota". Whats new? What pushes the envelope?

Sulu

It was not that bad. I owned that model (Gen6) of Camry for 4 years, and in fact, other than an artificially heavy steering feel and slow throttle tip-in response, it was quite a nice car. Its interior was better than the pre-facelifted Gen7 Camry with its hideously plastic centre stack.

There is a reason why Camrys are known as "luxury" cars: They are very nice, quiet, very refined automobiles that the North American Everyman can afford to drive.

It is quite funny how people who have only driven a Camry on a test drive (or never driven one before) -- let alone owned generation after generation (like I have) -- knee-jerkingly criticise it as the worst thing since sliced bread.

You are all correct that no one feature about a Camry stands out above other features -- not its styling, not its handling, not its speed. That is because a Camry does a lot of things very well; Toyota did not compromise one or more features in order to have one particular feature stand above all else and above its competitors. It is the perfect Everyman's car.

Toyota built a better Corolla for North America. It is called Camry.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Eh this is just one loss (everyone seems to be focused on the Camry), there will be more sedan shootouts from C&D, Motortrend etc.. no worries.

How about any thoughts on usually venerable Accord and Altima? The big American 3 beating all 3 major Asian makes? Latest Legacy in a solid 2nd place? Come on I know y'all want go more in depth than getting hung up on the Camry