European Air Worse Than Beijing at times, rethinking Diesels
12-15-14, 11:44 PM
#61
Lexus Champion
Western Europeans who live in the cities, especially the larger cities, do not need cars because they have excellent transit systems of buses, subways, trams/trolleys/streetcars, even taxis and car-sharing services. Even if they owned cars, they would have no place to park them. Car-sharing services are also growing, so for those who occasionally need a car but do not own one can "borrow" one when needed.
Those who do drive would be driving on small, narrow roads that in places seem to be merely paved country / farm roads. I have not driven in Western Europe for a few years now, but when I did, driving compact (early, not current Ford Mondeo) and mid-size cars, it was scary because of the narrow lanes. Growing up in North America, with its wide-open spaces and wide road lanes, you are much less worried about another car overtaking you or an on-coming car swerving into your lane but a North American driving in rural England and Wales? Forget it!
So why drive unless you really have to?
Those who do drive would be driving on small, narrow roads that in places seem to be merely paved country / farm roads. I have not driven in Western Europe for a few years now, but when I did, driving compact (early, not current Ford Mondeo) and mid-size cars, it was scary because of the narrow lanes. Growing up in North America, with its wide-open spaces and wide road lanes, you are much less worried about another car overtaking you or an on-coming car swerving into your lane but a North American driving in rural England and Wales? Forget it!
So why drive unless you really have to?
The case seems even moreso in Switzerland (which is said to be the most anti-car country in all Western and Central Europe). I remember a commenter from Zwolle, Netherlands state this:
Car taxes and fuel taxation in the Netherlands is high...........but it is not as high comped to Switzerland
12-16-14, 11:39 AM
#62
yup and it's game over in the u.s. as cuv/suvs outsell sedans and of course trucks are HUGE too. the traditional sedan only continues to sell so well because of 'tradition' but more and more people realize they don't make much sense practically.
as you know, in europe where parking and roads are tight in many places, a small vehicle with maximal space is the norm - i.e., a hatchback. in the u.s., larger hatches like kia soul, honda fit, elantra, and others are doing quite well. of course civics, corollas, accords and camrys (and others) still sell in huge numbers, but i bet a huge number of those are sold to older people and sales will drop hugely when that generation is gone making way for more yaris, fit, and cuvs, etc.
'fee'? maybe you meant few... and if so, i agree. and i don't mind.
as you know, in europe where parking and roads are tight in many places, a small vehicle with maximal space is the norm - i.e., a hatchback. in the u.s., larger hatches like kia soul, honda fit, elantra, and others are doing quite well. of course civics, corollas, accords and camrys (and others) still sell in huge numbers, but i bet a huge number of those are sold to older people and sales will drop hugely when that generation is gone making way for more yaris, fit, and cuvs, etc.
'fee'? maybe you meant few... and if so, i agree. and i don't mind.
US still loves sedans, despite SUVs selling better again. Europe seems to completely dislike sedans these days, unless they are luxury.
It is quite questionable if Toyota will make next-generation Avensis, after new one comes out next year. With sales of the complete class failing 30% YoY, they will likely not invest into EU model anymore after next gen comes out.
12-26-14, 04:44 PM
#63
French government to act against diesel
French fleet managers may have to recalculate their costs from next year.
The French Government is to begin removing the incentives for diesel vehicles in 2015, as well as introducing a labelling system to help motorists choose models based on their environmental performance, under plans announced by Prime Minister Manuel Valls.
Speaking at the environmental conference in Paris, Valls said that transport accounted for a quarter of greenhouse gas emissions in France, and that the country’s long-running preference for diesel engines has been ‘a mistake’.
Next year taxation will be reformed to remove the advantage for diesel compared to petrol.. An identification system marking out the most polluting vehicles will also be introduced next year.
“In France, the diesel engine has long been favoured”, said Valls. “It was a mistake. The government will set up, in 2015, a vehicle identification system based on their pollutants emissions. This system will help communities develop policies promoting cleaner vehicles”.
The French Government is to begin removing the incentives for diesel vehicles in 2015, as well as introducing a labelling system to help motorists choose models based on their environmental performance, under plans announced by Prime Minister Manuel Valls.
Speaking at the environmental conference in Paris, Valls said that transport accounted for a quarter of greenhouse gas emissions in France, and that the country’s long-running preference for diesel engines has been ‘a mistake’.
Next year taxation will be reformed to remove the advantage for diesel compared to petrol.. An identification system marking out the most polluting vehicles will also be introduced next year.
“In France, the diesel engine has long been favoured”, said Valls. “It was a mistake. The government will set up, in 2015, a vehicle identification system based on their pollutants emissions. This system will help communities develop policies promoting cleaner vehicles”.
12-26-14, 06:38 PM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Well, I won't try and second-guess the French government on this matter......maybe they have legitimate reasons for believing that diesel engines were a mistake. But, at the same time, it is ironic that a French automaker, Peugeot, has long been known (along with Mercedes) for making good automotive diesels back at a time when many regular passenger-car diesels had a reputation for being junk. Unlike typical diesels of the 1980s from GM, VW, Isuzu, etc.....Peugeot and Mercedes diesels could be trusted and depended upon for durability, economy, and long life (unfortunately, Peugeot, like many French-designed vehicles, had quality problems in other, non-engine-related areas).
I can still remember vividly when Peugeot was in the American market, including the 504D, 505D and 604D diesel models. Despite the excellence of these diesels, they just didn't catch on with most of the American public (partly because of the odd and frustrating way that the dash and column controls were designed in French cars back then), and Peugeot packed up and left our market.
I can still remember vividly when Peugeot was in the American market, including the 504D, 505D and 604D diesel models. Despite the excellence of these diesels, they just didn't catch on with most of the American public (partly because of the odd and frustrating way that the dash and column controls were designed in French cars back then), and Peugeot packed up and left our market.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-26-14 at 06:49 PM.
12-26-14, 08:01 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
12-27-14, 04:43 AM
#67
Keep in mind that PSA and Renault/Nissan have excellent small petrols, more advanced than germans, and that they also have EVs and Hybrids, unlike Germans.
So it will benefit their manufacturers as well.
12-27-14, 10:19 PM
#69
Lexus Champion
it does not make sense to have subsidies on diesel fuel/cars anymore... just remove them and market will correct itself.
Keep in mind that PSA and Renault/Nissan have excellent small petrols, more advanced than germans, and that they also have EVs and Hybrids, unlike Germans.
So it will benefit their manufacturers as well.
Keep in mind that PSA and Renault/Nissan have excellent small petrols, more advanced than germans, and that they also have EVs and Hybrids, unlike Germans.
So it will benefit their manufacturers as well.
Nothing bad will happen, nature (both Mother Nature and human economic nature) will always ensure that something new will take the place of something old that has been lost.
Losing diesels will merely mean that auto manufacturers will have to switch to other technologies, like better gasoline engines, gasoline hybrids and EVs (both plug-in and fuel cell electric vehicles), or other, synthetic fuels (cleaner biodiesels and other man-made fuels).
12-28-14, 12:38 AM
#70
Rest of the EU countries will likely continue to subsidize diesel fuel in years to come. Even France has planned only small amount of subsidy removal, not all of it... only €0.02 per liter, probably 10x less than what full subsidy is right now.
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