European Air Worse Than Beijing at times, rethinking Diesels
12-08-14, 01:21 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
i totally disagree with this - because while increased fuel taxes on goods transportation would (or may) cause an increase in the price of those goods, trucks are a HUGE part of the problem. trucks need to move to natural gas or better still, use more trains and then use electric or hybrid trucks for the last few miles. thankfully when driver-less vehicles become a reality, things will improve massively as non-perishable goods can be transported in electric trucks who may have to stop a bunch of times to recharge, but who cares, there's no driver to pay.
12-08-14, 02:03 PM
#47
Lexus Champion
Yup thank god. No sovereign country would ever want to radically minimize the diversification of their fuel mix. In fact, it's important that you have many sources and varieties as possible in your energy mix.
If any action will be implemented, then the most logical option would be to make Diesel fuel more expensive than Unleaded. This is what the United Kingdom is doing...........and France could explore that option.
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P.S.
I know there are a number of subcompact French cars such as the Clio, 208 and DS3............but I still don't believe that subcompacts of A-segment and B-segment make up the majority of the automobile population of France. I think French people have more money than that...........so at the very least, they should be able to afford compact cars and C-segment vehicles like 308, C4/DS4 and the Renault Megane.
With that said, regarding the 508 and DS5:
I wouldn't say many of course............but I doubt that there would be very little amount of D-segment or executive mid-size cars in France...........to the point that these are needles in a haystack. Comparing the Philippines vs France for example:
Lower income versus lower cost of living (Philippines) AGAINST Higher income versus higher cost of living (France)
It more or less evens out but so far, France may still have a net lead or net benefit at this moment.
Point is. I see quite a number of Toyota Camry and Honda Accord cars here. If that is the case, then there are French people that can afford cars like the 508, DS5 as well as the Renault Laguna.
they will lower amount of them by raising gas taxes on diesels, to gradually make them the same (taxes) and hence price of diesel more expensive... that alone will decrease amount of new diesels on the road significantly because it changes value proposition... then EuroVI will also make smaller diesels even more expensive.
-------------------
P.S.
I doubt many Parisians buy 508 or DS5... think Clio, think 208 and similar vehicles.
With that said, regarding the 508 and DS5:
I wouldn't say many of course............but I doubt that there would be very little amount of D-segment or executive mid-size cars in France...........to the point that these are needles in a haystack. Comparing the Philippines vs France for example:
Lower income versus lower cost of living (Philippines) AGAINST Higher income versus higher cost of living (France)
It more or less evens out but so far, France may still have a net lead or net benefit at this moment.
Point is. I see quite a number of Toyota Camry and Honda Accord cars here. If that is the case, then there are French people that can afford cars like the 508, DS5 as well as the Renault Laguna.
Last edited by Blackraven; 12-08-14 at 02:09 PM.
12-08-14, 04:21 PM
#49
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Yup thank god. No sovereign country would ever want to radically minimize the diversification of their fuel mix. In fact, it's important that you have many sources and varieties as possible in your energy mix.
If any action will be implemented, then the most logical option would be to make Diesel fuel more expensive than Unleaded. This is what the United Kingdom is doing...........and France could explore that option.
-------------------
P.S.
I know there are a number of subcompact French cars such as the Clio, 208 and DS3............but I still don't believe that subcompacts of A-segment and B-segment make up the majority of the automobile population of France. I think French people have more money than that...........so at the very least, they should be able to afford compact cars and C-segment vehicles like 308, C4/DS4 and the Renault Megane.
With that said, regarding the 508 and DS5:
I wouldn't say many of course............but I doubt that there would be very little amount of D-segment or executive mid-size cars in France...........to the point that these are needles in a haystack. Comparing the Philippines vs France for example:
Lower income versus lower cost of living (Philippines) AGAINST Higher income versus higher cost of living (France)
It more or less evens out but so far, France may still have a net lead or net benefit at this moment.
Point is. I see quite a number of Toyota Camry and Honda Accord cars here. If that is the case, then there are French people that can afford cars like the 508, DS5 as well as the Renault Laguna.
If any action will be implemented, then the most logical option would be to make Diesel fuel more expensive than Unleaded. This is what the United Kingdom is doing...........and France could explore that option.
-------------------
P.S.
I know there are a number of subcompact French cars such as the Clio, 208 and DS3............but I still don't believe that subcompacts of A-segment and B-segment make up the majority of the automobile population of France. I think French people have more money than that...........so at the very least, they should be able to afford compact cars and C-segment vehicles like 308, C4/DS4 and the Renault Megane.
With that said, regarding the 508 and DS5:
I wouldn't say many of course............but I doubt that there would be very little amount of D-segment or executive mid-size cars in France...........to the point that these are needles in a haystack. Comparing the Philippines vs France for example:
Lower income versus lower cost of living (Philippines) AGAINST Higher income versus higher cost of living (France)
It more or less evens out but so far, France may still have a net lead or net benefit at this moment.
Point is. I see quite a number of Toyota Camry and Honda Accord cars here. If that is the case, then there are French people that can afford cars like the 508, DS5 as well as the Renault Laguna.
12-08-14, 05:51 PM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna;
britain and france certainly have other large cities, but obviously not as big as london and paris. not sure your point. london and paris still only have a few percent of their respective country's populations. london's done a lot to improve pollution though. the two cities are also dramatically different - london being a collection of 'villages' and a confused bowl of spaghetti of roads 
where paris was very well planned with lots of straight lines.
where paris was very well planned with lots of straight lines.
the M25 goes AROUND London, so it's not all about traffic going into London - many are trying to get around it and despite the traffic it's typically the best way. it's really no different to me than beltways around american cities like 285 around atlanta for example, which can get horribly clogged too.
12-10-14, 10:11 AM
#51
I have to find the article, but I think Paris is looking to ban diesel vehicles by 2020. If that is true, I am wondering how workable is that in the next 5 years and how will they enforce that?
12-10-14, 11:46 AM
#52
Lexus Champion
100% total diesel ban. Francois Hollande shouldn't resort to such extreme idiocy.
12-10-14, 03:34 PM
#53
12-10-14, 03:41 PM
#54
http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2014/...e-in-40-years/
we can check november sales until its available, 508 is 31st.
12-10-14, 08:05 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
12-13-14, 12:42 AM
#56
Lexus Champion
yep, and midsize sedans are dying in europe, fast death w markets imploding by up to 30%...
http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2014/...e-in-40-years/
http://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2014/...e-in-40-years/
The only exceptions seem to be Ireland and Eastern Europe (where saloon/sedan cars still have a following).
we can check november sales until its available, 508 is 31st.
12-13-14, 05:48 PM
#57
Sadly true........in that hatchbacks are more popular in Western Europe over sedans/saloons.
The only exceptions seem to be Ireland and Eastern Europe (where saloon/sedan cars still have a following).
I'm kinda split on this one. At one point I can understand that D-segment midsize cars aren't that popular there. Still nevertheless, 1000+ units a month (for a country like France) is still quite a lot =)
The only exceptions seem to be Ireland and Eastern Europe (where saloon/sedan cars still have a following).
I'm kinda split on this one. At one point I can understand that D-segment midsize cars aren't that popular there. Still nevertheless, 1000+ units a month (for a country like France) is still quite a lot =)
Germany is one of the few that is still buying many sedans, but that doesnt help French at all.
Quite possibly 4-5 years from now fee cars will dissapear from this class in europe.
12-14-14, 02:55 AM
#58
Lexus Champion
And I've heard that Renault is unsure on whether they will continue with the Laguna for the next generation. With the current gen, they've stopped making Right Hand Drive units and the existing LHD models are just being sold to clear invetory. The V6 Petrol and Diesel variants (for the Coupe) are also phased out
I guess only the Renault Latitude remains.
IMHO people there should work harder so they can buy higher classes of cars. If people there want to improve their lives, then upgrading from subcompacts to higher vehicle segments should be something that people should put priority on.
Cars like the 508 and the DS5 are supposed to set the standard for the French automotive industry....
Unless of course, majority of young French people don't want to buy a car anymore.........and would just stick to public transportation like Paris Metro, RER B, TGV Bullet Train (in fairness, France has a good quality public transport system)
12-14-14, 07:40 AM
#59
Lexus Champion
That is sad
And I've heard that Renault is unsure on whether they will continue with the Laguna for the next generation. With the current gen, they've stopped making Right Hand Drive units and the existing LHD models are just being sold to clear invetory. The V6 Petrol and Diesel variants (for the Coupe) are also phased out
I guess only the Renault Latitude remains.
IMHO people there should work harder so they can buy higher classes of cars. If people there want to improve their lives, then upgrading from subcompacts to higher vehicle segments should be something that people should put priority on.
Cars like the 508 and the DS5 are supposed to set the standard for the French automotive industry....
Unless of course, majority of young French people don't want to buy a car anymore.........and would just stick to public transportation like Paris Metro, RER B, TGV Bullet Train (in fairness, France has a good quality public transport system)
And I've heard that Renault is unsure on whether they will continue with the Laguna for the next generation. With the current gen, they've stopped making Right Hand Drive units and the existing LHD models are just being sold to clear invetory. The V6 Petrol and Diesel variants (for the Coupe) are also phased out
I guess only the Renault Latitude remains.
IMHO people there should work harder so they can buy higher classes of cars. If people there want to improve their lives, then upgrading from subcompacts to higher vehicle segments should be something that people should put priority on.
Cars like the 508 and the DS5 are supposed to set the standard for the French automotive industry....
Unless of course, majority of young French people don't want to buy a car anymore.........and would just stick to public transportation like Paris Metro, RER B, TGV Bullet Train (in fairness, France has a good quality public transport system)
Western Europeans who live in the cities, especially the larger cities, do not need cars because they have excellent transit systems of buses, subways, trams/trolleys/streetcars, even taxis and car-sharing services. Even if they owned cars, they would have no place to park them. Car-sharing services are also growing, so for those who occasionally need a car but do not own one can "borrow" one when needed.
Those who do drive would be driving on small, narrow roads that in places seem to be merely paved country / farm roads. I have not driven in Western Europe for a few years now, but when I did, driving compact (early, not current Ford Mondeo) and mid-size cars, it was scary because of the narrow lanes. Growing up in North America, with its wide-open spaces and wide road lanes, you are much less worried about another car overtaking you or an on-coming car swerving into your lane but a North American driving in rural England and Wales? Forget it!
So why drive unless you really have to?
Last edited by Sulu; 12-14-14 at 07:59 AM.
12-14-14, 07:55 PM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
as you know, in europe where parking and roads are tight in many places, a small vehicle with maximal space is the norm - i.e., a hatchback. in the u.s., larger hatches like kia soul, honda fit, elantra, and others are doing quite well. of course civics, corollas, accords and camrys (and others) still sell in huge numbers, but i bet a huge number of those are sold to older people and sales will drop hugely when that generation is gone making way for more yaris, fit, and cuvs, etc.
Quite possibly 4-5 years from now fee cars will dissapear from this class in europe.
