GM To Idle ATS & CTS Plant For 3 Weeks; CTS Has 215 Day Supply
08-13-14, 06:23 AM
#151
Lexus Fanatic
I'll tell you exactly what cadillac's problem is.
their problem is actually THEMSELVES.
they keep clinging onto their vintage styling cues, trying to visually mimic their past fender fins, their past boxy american look of the 70's and 80's. they keep trying to design their new cars based on historic design cues. This although original, is not what the young high income earning segment wants.
Cadillac would be selling a lot more cars if they just did what hyundai and kia did, and just slap on the cadillac crest. The crest is still powerful, their designs are not so much.
their problem is actually THEMSELVES.
they keep clinging onto their vintage styling cues, trying to visually mimic their past fender fins, their past boxy american look of the 70's and 80's. they keep trying to design their new cars based on historic design cues. This although original, is not what the young high income earning segment wants.
Cadillac would be selling a lot more cars if they just did what hyundai and kia did, and just slap on the cadillac crest. The crest is still powerful, their designs are not so much.
08-13-14, 10:04 AM
#152
Lexus Fanatic
The issue is not their designs, they're making great looking cars. The issue is price.
08-13-14, 11:26 AM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
I really don't think thats the case. I think its a pretty common assault used against Lexus, that its just a nice Toyota. But...look at the sales.
08-13-14, 11:34 AM
#155
Agreed. Most people can distinguish that Caddy is basically the cream of GMs crop. Most people who dismiss Caddy as just a tarted up Chevy will likely say Lexus is a tarted up Toyota or an Audi is a tarted up VW. It's just that Caddy can't command MB/Bimmer prices yet.
08-13-14, 11:55 AM
#156
Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree a lot with oldcajun 
The problem seems to be they built too many cars which means their forecasting was completely wrong. This wouldn't be news is they predicted demand appropriately and they didn't have this many cars sitting. Funny but just a couple of months ago the press was saying how Caddy was successful moving the CTS up and transaction prices are up. Now they get the new CEO and news is suddenly bad. That changed fast.
I do agree with most here that the pricing was adventurous and moving a car with a name up 10-20 grand is very risky as their customer base then seems sticker shock and conquest buyers will have sticker shock as they expect the car to be priced where it was before. Most consumers are not aware of Caddy's strategic move for the CTS, they just see a higher price.
The ATS also has high prices and doesn't seem to be attracting younger buyers .I have yet to see any in person modified or at a car show all over the country. It seems to attract older buyers that want a Caddy and the price is right. The styling is not that different from the other cars which doesn't work. The IS does not look like a smaller LS, it is pretty distinct in style even the front end is just crazy to the LS. The one size different lengths works for the Germans, but maybe Caddy should have done more with the ATS.
Also the market is flooded with good cars. The ATS segment is out of this world right now as is the CTS segment.
I still never understood dropping DTS for XTS. The DTS had a good name going, dropped for some random new one.
Also it might take a car 2-3 generations to get it together. Expecting the ATS to suddenly sell 5k units a month is something that rarely happens in the industry. 3 generations from now, it could very well be a big success.
The problem seems to be they built too many cars which means their forecasting was completely wrong. This wouldn't be news is they predicted demand appropriately and they didn't have this many cars sitting. Funny but just a couple of months ago the press was saying how Caddy was successful moving the CTS up and transaction prices are up. Now they get the new CEO and news is suddenly bad. That changed fast.
I do agree with most here that the pricing was adventurous and moving a car with a name up 10-20 grand is very risky as their customer base then seems sticker shock and conquest buyers will have sticker shock as they expect the car to be priced where it was before. Most consumers are not aware of Caddy's strategic move for the CTS, they just see a higher price.
The ATS also has high prices and doesn't seem to be attracting younger buyers .I have yet to see any in person modified or at a car show all over the country. It seems to attract older buyers that want a Caddy and the price is right. The styling is not that different from the other cars which doesn't work. The IS does not look like a smaller LS, it is pretty distinct in style even the front end is just crazy to the LS. The one size different lengths works for the Germans, but maybe Caddy should have done more with the ATS.
Also the market is flooded with good cars. The ATS segment is out of this world right now as is the CTS segment.
I still never understood dropping DTS for XTS. The DTS had a good name going, dropped for some random new one.
Also it might take a car 2-3 generations to get it together. Expecting the ATS to suddenly sell 5k units a month is something that rarely happens in the industry. 3 generations from now, it could very well be a big success.
08-13-14, 02:09 PM
#158
Lexus Fanatic
I'm with you and oldcajun on that one, Mike. But you, like me, I'm sure, have heard all of the endless excuses why....outdated Northstar V8, 4-speed auto, cheap interior materials, sloppy handling, stodgy, not hip enough, too Grandpa/Grandma, want to attract younger buyers, etc.....
The only credible reasons I can think of are the XTS's 6AT, AWD option, and better-looking interior trim. Other than that, the XTS, IMO, is a joke.
08-13-14, 02:13 PM
#159
Lexus Fanatic
Some of your own posted autoblog review discussions go on and on, too. Any time a Car Chat thread is posted about a Lexus competitor (of which Cadillac is one), it has the potential to (and often does) attract a lot of interest,
08-13-14, 02:15 PM
#160
Lexus Fanatic
To be clear, he's not saying they should have kept the old DTS...he doesn't understand why they changed the name. The old DTS was an old, crappy car.
IE...the current XTS should be named DTS. I also personally think that the CTS should be called the STS and the ATS should be the CTS.
As for the XTS, more than a few reviews lately praising its ride specifically. Like you I thought it rode poorly when it first came out, might be time for both of us to drive one again. One such post was from a CL member.
IE...the current XTS should be named DTS. I also personally think that the CTS should be called the STS and the ATS should be the CTS.
As for the XTS, more than a few reviews lately praising its ride specifically. Like you I thought it rode poorly when it first came out, might be time for both of us to drive one again. One such post was from a CL member.
08-13-14, 02:25 PM
#161
Lexus Fanatic
To be clear, he's not saying they should have kept the old DTS...he doesn't understand why they changed the name. The old DTS was an old, crappy car.
IE...the current XTS should be named DTS. I also personally think that the CTS should be called the STS and the ATS should be the CTS.
IE...the current XTS should be named DTS. I also personally think that the CTS should be called the STS and the ATS should be the CTS.
I did think there were a couple of credible reasons for the DTS's replacement, as I stated above. I wasn't 100% against it.
As for the XTS, more than a few reviews lately praising its ride specifically. Like you I thought it rode poorly when it first came out, might be time for both of us to drive one again. One such post was from a CL member.
Might be time to stop by the Cadillac shop again. My recent experience with the 6Gen ES350's ride-quality was noticeably different between winter and summer....enough so that I did a whole new thread on it. Warm weather tends to soften tire rubber and shock-absorber fluid, leading to more give over bumps.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-13-14 at 02:28 PM.
08-13-14, 04:56 PM
#162
Lexus Test Driver
Well, that's what they did with the catera. Didn't work so well. I actually think their designs are very nice. All makers harken back to their roots and Caddy is no different, it makes them unique and distinguishable. Their current lineup is handsome enough. I think it has all to do with pricing. I've seen the new CTS on the road and it looks beautiful, like wise with the ATS and new escalade. Even the xts. But they don't have the desirability yet to charge same or more as an equivalent German car.
08-13-14, 05:03 PM
#163
Lexus Test Driver
Make HIDs and sunroof standard on all trims; include vented seats and not just heated seats; make blind spot monitoring standard, or at least a low-cost standalone option rather than bundling it with $3000 of options. Once people feel that they are getting much more for their $$, they will be less inclined to get a BMW or whatever. BMW will always be BMW, but Caddy will grab those that aren't loyalists and want the best car they can get for the money.
08-13-14, 05:07 PM
#164
Lexus Test Driver
I still never understood dropping DTS for XTS. The DTS had a good name going, dropped for some random new one.
Also it might take a car 2-3 generations to get it together. Expecting the ATS to suddenly sell 5k units a month is something that rarely happens in the industry. 3 generations from now, it could very well be a big success.
Also it might take a car 2-3 generations to get it together. Expecting the ATS to suddenly sell 5k units a month is something that rarely happens in the industry. 3 generations from now, it could very well be a big success.
08-13-14, 05:46 PM
#165
Lexus Fanatic
I test-drove both the Catera and the earlier Cimarron, which, along with with the infamous diesel-V8 1980 Seville. was one of Cadillac's most-panned cars of all time. Except for the early-model Cimarron's ridiculously underpowered carburated engine, I thought its interior and driving manners were actually better than the Catera's
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-13-14 at 05:53 PM.
