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XLR should have been awesome, but yeah, it wasn't great (i drove one).
fizzboy, good point about the cts 'shift' which was probably confusing. having said that, the original cts wasn't in fact small - it was way bigger than an IS or 3 series, so the shift was more alignment with reality. the ats is definitely small.
Cadillac has thoroughly confused the public by taking a known model and completely shifting it to another class and pricepoint. I'm refering to the CTS establishing itself as an entry car, then in a few year they jacked up the price and made it their mid model. No no no. You cannot do that in this market without people getting sticker shock, confused, and turned off. It will take a good ten to twelve years for the general public to get a grip on the fact that the CTS has grown and is no longer the cheap Cadillac.the real deal going.").
Apparantly, Cadillac had to chose between the necessity you are speaking of and the need to bring out a smaller model under the CTS to compete with the 3-series. They obviously chose the latter. But a complicating factor, of course, is that the 3-series shot itself in the foot with their new steering and suspension, and is now an easier vehicle to compete against.
XLR should have been awesome, but yeah, it wasn't great (i drove one).
That was one of the few Cadillacs I haven't test-driven. What did you think of it?.....besides the obvious "wasn't great"? I know its build quality, like most GM products back then, was second-rate.
speaking of towncars ... a couple of times (ages ago) i rented one like this and it was hands down the worst car i've ever driven.
for a HUGE car it had surprisingly little storage space, including a ludicrous trunk with an UPRIGHT full size spare in it behind felt covering making the space left almost useless. inside the car had almost NO storage spaces except the seats and the glovebox. i've been on sailboats with less body roll than this POS. visibility was awful. you'd hit the gas and the car would surge forward with the ENORMOUS front hood jutting up in the air making it hard to see over. i think container ships have a smaller turning circle as well. it was baaaaaad.
No offense, but to some extent, you're stating the obvious. (I know, I do too sometimes). By any modern standard, a 25 or 30 year old RWD full-size American sedan is certainly not going to be the epitome of interior or exterior space efficiency. Later models of the TC were downsized some and had at least somewhat more space efficiency.
And, BTW, even that car you speak of was smaller and more space-efficient than some of the full-size luxury cars I grew up with in the 60s, especially the two-door coupes like the El Dorado, Toronado, and Lincoln Mark III/IV.
speaking of towncars ... a couple of times (ages ago) i rented one like this and it was hands down the worst car i've ever driven.
for a HUGE car it had surprisingly little storage space, including a ludicrous trunk with an UPRIGHT full size spare in it behind felt covering making the space left almost useless. inside the car had almost NO storage spaces except the seats and the glovebox. i've been on sailboats with less body roll than this POS. visibility was awful. you'd hit the gas and the car would surge forward with the ENORMOUS front hood jutting up in the air making it hard to see over. i think container ships have a smaller turning circle as well. it was baaaaaad.
It's funny to watch chase scenes in 60's &70's cop/detective TV shows with these things. They are bounding all over the road, bottoming out, wide turns etc. After the chase and cops are talking to the perp, the front end is still bouncing up and down.
It's funny to watch chase scenes in 60's &70's cop/detective TV shows with these things. They are bounding all over the road, bottoming out, wide turns etc. After the chase and cops are talking to the perp, the front end is still bouncing up and down.
So true!
Funny watching overweight private detective Frank Cannon(William Conrad) chasing someone and then rolling out of his Lincoln Mark IV.
No Cadillac for Frank.
It's funny to watch chase scenes in 60's &70's cop/detective TV shows with these things. They are bounding all over the road, bottoming out, wide turns etc. After the chase and cops are talking to the perp, the front end is still bouncing up and down.
Soft floaty driving characteristics in those days (with some exceptions, like the firmer Chrysler torsion-bar chassis), weren't just limited to full-size cars. If you watched Starsky & Hutch, that mid-size bright red Ford Torino with the white roof and trim they ran around in also flopped around like a boat. Ford, in those days, had an especially soft chassis set-up, but back then, that's what people wanted.....a soft ride (and a lot of them still like it today). I like a softish ride myself, but not to the point where handing is severely affected.
So true!
Funny watching overweight private detective Frank Cannon(William Conrad) chasing someone and then rolling out of his Lincoln Mark IV.
No Cadillac for Frank.
Good recollections Joe! We used to get a kick out of watching Frank C. trying to get out of that Lincoln (with the front end still bobbing up and down). Did you know William Conrad was the voice of Matt Dillon on the radio version of Gunsmoke?
Good recollections Joe! We used to get a kick out of watching Frank C. trying to get out of that Lincoln (with the front end still bobbing up and down). Did you know William Conrad was the voice of Matt Dillon on the radio version of Gunsmoke?
That was one of the few Cadillacs I haven't test-driven. What did you think of it?.....besides the obvious "wasn't great"? I know its build quality, like most GM products back then, was second-rate.
This is off-topic to the thread, but I will indulge with a very brief review (even though you weren't talking to me):
I logged a solid ~1500mi. on a 2006 XLR-V (my grandfather’s) between the years of 2006-2010. I’m probably younger than you think, but let’s just say I had access to some fun cars soon after getting my driver’s license. I would probably have been more complementary of the car had it not been sitting next to my grandmother’s 2006 Mercedes-Benz SL600 that was purchased at the same time.
Exterior
I was a big fan of the exterior of the time, although it hasn’t worn as well as other cars the debuted at the time. I always got complements on it, has the XLR-V had styling enhancements and a great set of wheels that really complemented the design. It also had a great stance that it inherited from the Corvette.
Driving Experience
The steering was numb (even moreso than the Corvette) and remained lifeless in your hands. That being said, it was direct. The car featured excellent stability control programming via Stabilitrak, which I had already sampled on a contemporary Z06. It was honestly ahead of its time. Without it on, the XLR-V would hang the tail out all damn day. That car was QUICK and the supercharger whine was audible. I loved that aspect of it. The 6-speed transmission was OK but didn’t have the torque converter lockup abilities of the ZF 6HP26 that started appearing in BMWs around the same time. That didn’t dampen my enthusiasm too much given the car’s mission. The brakes were great and dependable for my uses.
Folding Hardtop
Honestly, it seemed poorly designed compared the SL600. It didn’t seal out noise as well, it folded in a very inefficient manner, and the trunklid raised up a to an obnoxious level to allow the top to fold into the trunk. It actually looked a bit hilarious. It also failed a couple of times- once in the fully closed position (good) and once with the top down (very bad).
Interior
I saved the worst for last. I was crestfallen when I realized Cadillac was trying to peddle this **** out for $100k. I had to stifle my laughter (I promise I wasn’t a brat back then ) when my grandpa told me the MSRP. Luckily he had a good relationship with the Cadillac dealer and got a great deal. The interior trim was cheap, the shifter moved throughout its gate like a $15k Cavalier, and the car had an awful new-car smell. Every aspect of it looked cheap in my eyes, from the switchgear to the trim. I also wasn’t a fan of the Bulgari gauges, but that’s neither here nor there.
My grandpa loved it till the end, despite all the electrical niggles he had with it. He is an interesting man- loved Cadillac’s sense his youth, aspired to own a Mercedes back when they were unattainable by many, bought a Bentley for his wife, now drives a Mercedes convertible.
The brand problems at Lincoln and Cadillac are very serious. The only vehicle that does not suffer brand image problems is the Cadillac Escalade.
I always thought the 95-03 STS models were the best Cadillac has ever come to making a true Lexus competitor. THEN the terrible last gen STS came to market and Cadillac was laughed at once again.
The 95-03 STS was an understeering FWD nightmare. They always touted Stabilitrak as some miracle agility improving technology - we simply know it today as ESC, which comes standard on every car you can buy. It's always simply been the electronic nanny preventing accidents, never improving handling (unless you consider the decreases in traction breaking at the limit as allowing the driver to push the car more, which I don't think any serious driver would).
My dad had 3 of them in that generation. The Northstar was a nice engine, very smooth and a lot of torque, but the car itself was simply inferior to the Germans.
But I digress. Cadillac can't sell any cars because the brand has no cachet with anyone under 45. Older people have more money, yes, but they also want to recapture their youth, and no one wants to buy a brand that makes them look and feel older than they are. They killed the DTS for this very reason, because despite it making money, it was losing money in the long run (which is the point some people seem to lose sight of.) A brand is a portfolio of products, and analyzing any particular product in ignorance of its effect on the others is a fallacy.
Cadillac did not follow the killing of the DTS with any sort of appeal to a younger demographic. The ATS is a small car for older people. Which doesn't quite make sense when the 20-25 age bracket is the largest market in the US right now, and in 5 years these people would be buying ATS-sized cars, so you need something they can reach into TODAY so they'll actually look at the ATS tomorrow. Additionally, the fact that the XTS is such a poor car turns people off the ATS & CTS, because that's what they see as the best Cadillac has to offer. Add in the ELR, and the perception of Cadillac being "overpriced" only worsens. Add in the fact that the Escalade is more expensive than a MB GL and I'm absolutely amazed they sell any of them (does anyone who really compares the two decide on the Escalade? Or is it only "American car buyers" who buy these things as I presume?)
Main issues for Cadillac:
1. Overpriced in the sense of $/pedigree
2. No aspirational cars
3. No capture of younger demographic
4. Styling speaks to older generation, but too busy for the minimalism of modern design trends
5. GM issues-at-large weigh heavily on every GM brand - Cadillac is not a brand in the sense that Audi is a brand, there is an extreme lack of perceived independence
these cars are overpriced. you put any options on the ATS and it is quickly north of $50K. that's a lot of coin for a vehicle with mediocre looks and from what i hear a subpar transmission. i will wait for the buick version for $15K less.
The thing is the new cts is as good or even better than competition....
There are 166 2014 CTS sedans on Ebay. There are 120 E Class Sedans and 316 BMW 5 series... They are selling well enough, and it doesn't appear like there is too much of an inventory at dealerships in comparison to the competition.. Something isn't adding up...
08-11-14, 06:09 AM
... a couple of times (ages ago) i rented one like this and it was hands down the worst car i've ever driven. 
) when my grandpa told me the MSRP. Luckily he had a good relationship with the Cadillac dealer and got a great deal. The interior trim was cheap, the shifter moved throughout its gate like a $15k Cavalier, and the car had an awful new-car smell. Every aspect of it looked cheap in my eyes, from the switchgear to the trim. I also wasn’t a fan of the Bulgari gauges, but that’s neither here nor there. 
