J.P.

They are aware of it, but they cannot just drop the price in the open because then they become a value play which does not work when you are trying to rehab a brand and go up market, but people also do not want to go play games to get the deal.

Formula boats does this very successfully, their strategy is not 100% unique but it works on the pricing side while keeping the image up.

Toys4RJill

I agree, I think the Town Car discussion has to be put to rest. It did sell pretty well until the last 5 years of production, but its not a car Lincoln should be selling if they want to grow as a brand.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

So true.
Car service businesses bought the Town Car.The general public didn't.
I feel Lincoln is just about done.I don't think the MKC will save the brand.

Toys4RJill

Well, I agree they are buying the brand but I don't think the true Lexus/Audi/MB class of buyers are visiting Cadillac dealers to compare.

mmarshall

The Cruze and Astra share a Delta II platform very loosely, but, aside from that, are totally different cars. They have completely different interiors, bodies, drivetrains, and personalities. The Verano is much closer to the Astra, except for the Buick power train, trim, and sound insulation materials.



That's because Cadillac decided, early on, that they wanted their compact to be a RWD sport-sedan to compete with the 3-series.

J.P.

just thinking.... does the average cts-v buyer look at those brands?

Toys4RJill

I think Cadillac took a gamble, failed with their pricing. The deep discounts are just a reflection that the ATS and CTS are not desirable to the class of buyers they were designed for.

Toys4RJill

I doubt it. Cadillac sells so few CTS V models and ISF models are almost non existent.

Toys4RJill

Exactly. One day it might be possible to revive the Town Car name. That is if trends change and such. I think the MKC is a nice cuv but like most American products, it will not live up to the prestige of the NX.

mmarshall

It's probably hard to find an "average" CTS-V buyer. That particular model doesn't sell well. Not only that, but a number of those who bought the first-generation model were hurt with poor reliability, and may be somewhat soured on a subsequent model. So I'd say, yes, they may (?), in fact, be looking at some competitors.

TangoRed

We'll see. The MKZ was certainly a punt, but the MKX and MKS are right around the corner to help out. The next legitimate Navigator (ignoring this refresh) won't be coming for another couple of years, unfortunately.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

The problem with the MKC is it's $50K well equipped and soon will be discounted $6K+ w/0% financing.
Then there's the reliability factor.

Toys4RJill

Most people will have no problem paying $50k for a NX but would not pay that for a Lincoln regardless if it has more power, options, warranty or whatever.

mmarshall

Some mag reviews are saying that the new 2015 Genesis is the car that Lincoln should have replaced the TC with. I can't directly comment on that, as haven't reviewed one. But, from what I do know about it, I would tend to agree....it certainly has some nice things about it. I also won't comment much on the NX until I have seen it....but the styling, to me, seems awkward.

mmarshall

I reviewed an MKC recently that listed for around 40K.....but it lacked AWD, which many buyers would want. Base El-Strippo is 33-34K...but, again, probably not many buyers would choose it.

You do have a point about unproven reliability (and I stated that in my review), especially since it shares a platform with the below-average-reliability Ford Escape. Vehicles derived from the same platform, though, don't always mean similar reliability...as we are seeing at both GM and Chrysler.

The new MKS, IMO, can't come a minute too soon. Except for its nice AWD option that the Town Car haver had, I was simply disgusted with the 1Gen MKS.