Toys4RJill

mmarshall , can you give a concrete example using a car? Or parts? Or whatever. The pie makes no sense.

pbm317

LexBob2 is exactly correct. Marketing budgets and engineering budgets are largely separate in the industry, and often even housed within separate "companies" so it isn't one taking away from the other as mmarshall thinks it is.

mmarshall

Well of course not, if it is housed within separate companies. That more or less goes without saying. But that is not always the case, and sometimes one ends up robbing Peter to pay Paul.

And even where it IS separate, that still doesn't mean that dollars can't ultimately be rerouted or given to another function instead.

Of course, I'm not saying that it's not nice to have some test-drive incentives sometimes. I use them myself....but I just don't necessarily see it as the best way to sell cars. A more effective way, IMO, is not to pay for test-drives, but to give the money back on a purchase...as some companies have done for years. Most people are interested in a lower price on the deal itself.

mmarshall

Which "qualification" are you taking about? Credit for a car loan on a purchase? I've never had any kind of a problem at all on the test-drive itself (assuming that a car was actually available)...although sometimes the dealership will request that I keep the miles down on a test-drive. if I don't get a long enough test-drive for what I think is an adequate On The Road write-up, I won't write it up as a full-review....only a partial/static one.

Of course, dealerships don't do test-drives simply for reviewers. They know that not all test-drives will result in sales....although it sometimes can open the gate for a customer-reference with a very nice salesperson or dealership. Some people are impressed with polite, courteous, salespersons, and especially those who don't pressure.

Toys4RJill

mmarshall, nobody is robbing anybody to pay anyone. Your false information is incorrect.

Vehicle marketing is related to overall vehicle sales, in the USA, Toyota USA controls how the marketing of a US spec model is made. Toyota marketing then hires a marketing firm, to come up with a marketing strategy. The design and marketing objectives are usually thought out well in advance.

The marketing for a Corolla or Camry in the USA will be usually be different than from another major region in the world. But often times, another area picks up the marketing from another region. Case in point, Land Cruiser marketing was designed for the Australian region which then is used all over the world. Toyota USA made no marketing material for themselves.

As for engineering, you are completely 100% incorrect, the engineering is seperate from the marketing. Toyota Japan did not skimp and allocate any money from the Land Cruiser engineering budget so that Toyota USA could promote it. The Land Cruiser USA marketing budget is tied directly to USA sales. In the case of the Toyota Land Cruiser, it the budgrt is not very large. But for something like the Tundra, it is much larger as there are sales to support it.

mmarshall

Vehicles that sell well don't need a lot of marketing. If Camry and Accord marketing dollars dried up overnight (which they won't) both of them would continue to sell for years. Both cars have a very high percentage of repeat buyers....that's one reason for their huge out-the-door numbers.

This discussion between you and me has gone on long enough. Have a nice day.

Toys4RJill

Vehicles that sell well don't need a lot of marketing. If Camry and Accord marketing dollars dried up overnight (which they won't) both of them would continue to sell for years. Both cars have a very high percentage of repeat buyers....that's one reason for their huge out-the-door numbers. [/QUOTE]

Wow mmarshall, you are wrong again.

Marketing is absolutely essential to the sales of the Camry and Accord. In fact, I would be willing to be you that the Camry or Corolla has the highest marketing budget out of all USA Toyota models. The reason for this is because of sales volumes and the importance of the model.

You are 100% incorrect to say that the Camry sells without a marketing budget.

J.P.

Budgets are set for each part of the company prior to their next fiscal year, marketing budgets have nothing to do with operations especially manufacturing, engineering and production. So your point about budgets and pie makes no sense.

Test drive incentives are simply marketing. For example, do I want to send $100 to get 25 clicks on a Facebook ad or do I want to get someone in the car for a drive? If the quants say I have a higher conversion ratio for new customer acquisition via test drives guess where the marketing budget goes?

What good does money back on a purchase do if your prospect has already ruled your brand out because of prior history? You often say marketing does not work but the camry and accord would not be selling as well without it, ask my dad who calls me every time he see's a local dealer ad asking me if I should trade his car in.....

Lincoln has a branding issue, they need to get people into the cars to show them we are a new company, the test drive incentives work. Same thing with an employee of mine whom wanted a german car and would not even CONSIDER Lexus. I had to drive him to see my sales guy at a dealer so he would test drive an IS F-Sport, and now its on his short list!

oldcajun

Mike,
Lincoln requires that you check in on their website and list the car you currently drive. They do not offer the test drive if your current car does not meet some standard. The Cadillac sales guy I talked with had just had a visit from 4 college age kids in an old beater Civic. No interest or ability to buy a Cadillac, but they got the gift cards any way. Plus, they took over an hour of his time and put some hard miles on the demo. Not a good plan on Cadillac's part.
Steve

LexBob2

Vehicles that sell well don't need a lot of marketing. If Camry and Accord marketing dollars dried up overnight (which they won't) both of them would continue to sell for years. Both cars have a very high percentage of repeat buyers....that's one reason for their huge out-the-door numbers.





The marketing people at Toyota, Honda etc. would argue that you can't keep selling your cars to loyal customers only. To grow, you need to capture new buyers to the brand. To do that you need marketing and promotion to differentiate your brand and create an interest in potential buyers so they consider your brand and hopefully make that purchase or lease.

Marketing, promotions and advertising aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Budgets may go up and down as needed but they are here to stay.

mmarshall

Thanks, cajun. I don't remember having to list the car I drove when I was on the Lincoln site to get my rebate....but maybe they have revised the site since then.

Were they looking at a CTS-V .......or don't you know? It would probably take all four of them, money-wise, (and then some) to actually buy one...and that's assuming they can get any insurance.

I know it's somewhat of a stereotype, but a lot of young males are attracted to HP and torque....and that's Cadillac's standard-bearer in the high-performance-department.


Yes, I agree, that's rude and inconsiderate on their part....and one of the reasons I won't buy or lease a demo, even at a discounted price. True, I test-drive a lot of cars I myself don't buy (some of them, of course, for my MM reviews here). But, IMO, as I see it, if a salesperson or dealership is nice enough to allow me a test-drive (particularly one long enough for a decent review), the least one can do in return is not to abuse the car on the test drive and drive with common sense. I check out basic acceleration, transmission shifts, basic handling/steering response, body roll, noise level, brake response, etc..... but only hard enough to get an basic idea of what the car is like, no harder. And, of course, on a brand-new car and engine, one should keep the revs below about 4000-4500. (as I usually do). I figure if one wants to get 0-60 times, max-skidpad, panic-braking distance, etc..... those are not what my reviews (or a dealer test-drive) is for. You can get those from publications like Car & Driver, Road & Track, AutoWeek, etc..... It's their job is to test cars to their limits.

mmarshall

True to some extent, but one of the ways (among others) you get new customers is from word-of-mouth from former loyal customers. Many people (including a number of of us here at CL) don't really take marketing and car ads seriously (because we know how much B.S. some of them can have). But we DO take our own impressions (and each other's impressions) seriously, even if we sometimes disagree with each other.

LexBob2

Those of us here on CL are a VERY small minority vs. the car buying public at large. If the car brands relied on us, they'd go broke. They need to get their message out to the entire, broader, market, and target the potential buyers they are after.

It's a sophisticated process that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. That's when you see changes and revisions in the marketing.

mmarshall

I understand your point, to some extent. But people usually use Facebook as a social-medium, not like E-Bay, Amazon, or some other Internet system for actually purchasing things.

I agree it's hard to play a strict numbers game, but it's obvious that a lot of Camrys and Accords do sell simply on word-of-mouth and tradition. I get a lot of people who, when they ask me for my opinion on a new car, those are the first two they mention, even if they don't watch TV or other ads.

What does your dad drive, BTW? I'm not necessarily going to try and read his mind, but if he calls you that often, it sounds like he might not be terribly satisfied with what he is driving. If so, then it might be time to start discussing a possible replacement....and I'm sure you will do your best to help him.

Maybe, but, in the MKC's case, the vehicle will probably, to some extent, sell itself. It seems to be the best new Lincoln product to come out in a number of years. But, I assume that your point is that it will take the incentives to GET people to test-drive it. If it works, then fine......Lincoln's future survival, IMO (which the MKC may help ensure), is more important than our own individual feelings on the rebate/incentive....including mine). If the incentives actually do help save the company, they will have been a good thing, regardless of what we as individuals feel.

Was this a BMW jock? Getting Bimmer-Philes to consider other brands can be like pulling teeth. Even with all of the Chris Bangle features and the recent desensitizing with the electric steering systems, the very name BMW can be addicting to some.

mmarshall

Well, yes, nationwide we are a small minority. But on the other hand, we still have a lot of people, and there are many other forums like CL to ad to it (though not always as good), and they have their memberships as well. And, in general, though me and few of the older CL members do a lot of the posting, much of the actual membership of the car forums is with younger people....the very ones that the car companies (supposedly) want to market to.