Toys4RJill

Yes I have driven both, and the LS460 for 13-14 is a superior design in every way. Not so for 07-12 version.

SW17LS

Superior design yes...built better no. I'm not talking about design, I'm talking about the quality of the materials and the manner in which they are assembled.

In what ways is the 13-14 LS built better than the LS430? What materials specifically are better?

LexBob2

Seems like it might be premature to say the NX blows the competition out of the water. So far haven't we only seen pictures and pre-productions models?

In any case, it seems like other than the really obvious stuff, most of the fit & finish discussion is a beauty is in the eye of the beholder kind of thing.

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

I would say though that the optional Bamboo wood is a treat in the new LS. Other than that, everything else i say is about the same level of craftsmanship imo. The interior design is a killer in the new LS also.

Toys4RJill

For me, the way everything comes together and works. Materials, design and operation.

I understand that you might think the 430 is better, and that is fine. Where do you think it is better?

SW17LS

Exactly lol. I personally have a hard time seeing how a FWD based architecture vehicle based on the Rav 4 can blow away something like an X3...the interior looks very nice, but we need to see it in person.

I'm personally not a fan of the bamboo. Its beautifully done, just not my thing.

SW17LS

I don't think the LS430 is better, I've said repeatedly that I think materials and craftsmanship overall are the same. Thats my problem, it should be better not the same. The LS430 had a leather stitched lower dash and leather stitched door panels. The LS460 has a leather stitched lower dash and leather stitched door panels. The LS430 has a standard felt headliner with optional alcantara. So does the LS460. LS430 has vanity mirrors for the rear passengers. So does the LS460. The LS430 had 14 way power seats with a driver length extension. The LS430 has 14 way power seats with a driver length extension. The LS430 has standard spray dyed leather with a semi-analine option. So does the LS460. The LS430 had 3 wood options...the LS460 has three wood options. The only difference is the available executive seating option...which is incredibly rare.

See what I'm getting at? Theres nothing new, nothing different that makes it stand out. If you compare the difference in the interiors between the LS400 and LS430, the difference was huge at that time. Thats what I'm talking about, thats the kind of generational improvement Lexus needs to make again.

When you take aesthetics out of the equation, when you take improved styling out of it...there is nothing that the LS460 has that the LS430 didn't have when it comes to the interior. Right down to the amount of available seat adjustments, they are exactly the same. Materials are the exact same, sourced from the same source I'm sure...plastics are the same...leather is the same. When you compared my 98 LS to the LS430 the difference was huge. The interior was larger, more comfortable, more adjustable seats, more customization options, better materials standard and options for even better materials.

spwolf

well fit and finish and this thread is actually all objective... it turned out to be design and more talk but originally the thread pointed out pretty major issues in vehicle production that did not get cought by inspection before leaving factory or dealer during the PDI.

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

I see your point but from what i can see Lexus is taking a different approach with "more". IMO, their "more" comes in the form of technology. The amount of tech in the 460 compared to the 430 is marginally better. Yes you can offer 100 different wood options and 1000-way seats but from what i see, its a waste of resources that's better used in offering better/usable tech such as the face monitoring thingy for example. My guess is that Lexus doesn't get a lot of request for customization so they don't really focus on it. They're sticking to core selling items that gives the best return. Meat and potatoes of options you can say.

spwolf

Plenty of people did see NX in person, it has been touring Lexus dealer showrooms for last 2 months I think.

And of course - what does FWD vs RWD have to do with interior? X1 is RWD vehicle and its interior quality is not even "premium", let alone "quality". At least Euro models I have sit in compare poorly with Rav4 when it comes to fit and finish, with quality of materials going either way depending on what package you got.

mmarshall

Good post. What made the original 90s-vintage LS400 such as good car was not necessarily having the best interior in its class (actually, in some ways, it really wasn't that impressive-looking inside, at least IMHO). Nor was the LS400's sheet metal necessarily anything to write home about.....except for a nicely-done paint job. But it was what was under the LS400's skin that really matterd. Even today, I still routinely see 90s-vintage LS400s running around the D.C. area with 200K or more miles on them.

SW17LS

Still a preproduction model.

But none of that tech is cutting edge, it and more is available from everybody. I recognize that when it comes to things like seat adjustments, theres a point of diminishing return, I'm just saying they need to improve the car...not just make it look different...and if I upgrade from my GS to an LS I shouldn't have to give up features...i.e. my adjustable front seats.

As for customization. Go on the website for every competitor. Build an S Class...build a 7 Series, build an XJ, build an A8. Everybody else offers customization, leather options, color options, trim options, etc. Is it more likely that all of these competitors are appealing to a desire in the consumer and that Lexus is behind in that regard, or is it more likely that everybody else has misread and Lexus is the only one who realizes nobody cares?

I have read from many CL members who left Lexus for other brands that a big reason they did was their inability to spec out a Lexus exactly as they want it. Like I said...options are a true luxury.

Absolutely...one of those running around with 200k+ miles was ours! lol

But...if you look at every generation, it improved. They offered better...the car was more.

spwolf

To me difference between 2012 model and before is way bigger, and it was "just" a facelift. It introduced different front and and completely different interior... Frankly previously LS was pretty boring car that I never considered - new LS looks pretty darn great, both inside and out.

But you are talking only about options, which I really dont understand at all. Just because previous LS had xx way seats and new one has xx way seats, they are not the same. And just because it previously had wood, it is not the same as new shimamoku wood. Comparing old LS430 wood and new shimamoku wood, they are from different planet.

We also got a lot more interior options and technology. From climate concierge to huge screen to all led lighting with interior illumination, to that shimamoku wood and finally great interior colors - to me, the difference is night and day in interior. New interior colors and wood is a lot nicer looking than before - there are 5 leather colors and 4 wood options, all looking good - even light gray due to different colors in interior.

On the other hand, Lexus will always look like a Lexus... it has indenity now. Just like BMW will be BMW and Audi Audi. Obviously when you sit down in different brand, all is new and great compared to looking at "same" interiors before.

So it is not bad to change brands sometimes because that gives you all new perspective on things and gives you amount of change that no new model can (from same brand)

spwolf

well they started producing them and it still has leather dash and amounts of leather everywhere that nobody from competition can match, options or no options :-)

Heck, it was first Lexus that German media said it had excellent interior... they didnt find GS to be able to compare to 5/A6 in interior, so it really has to be something :-))))

SW17LS

Agreed...BUT I think the quality of the interior had actually degraded from the LS430 to the 07-12 LS460. The 13 refresh brought back that lost quality...

The shimamoku wood is nice...but its simply another option of wood color. They're just exchanging features and colors and materials for other features, colors, and materials that are the same. Where is the improvement, where is the next level of quality?

The only color that has not always been available on the LS is Flaxen. Other than that we have black, grey and cream. We need different leather options, more color options, bold colors like cabernet and dark browns that are popular. Look at the color palette for the S Class or 7 Series.

Not a leather dash...its an imitation leather dash