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Fit and Finish Issues... Really?

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Old 07-27-14, 11:28 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
Everyone cheaps out in certain places. You make a good point but I was disgusted when recently riding in the back of a brand new Honda Accord. The door panel noticeably flexed when the window was rolled down and then rolled all the way back up- it made the entire assembly seem cheap and flimsy.
depends on the cost of the car of course... lots of japanese cars preffer to use flimsier plastics but then their mechanics are rock solid. Flex on the centre tunel can be done on almost any japanese vehicle, not sure why exactly people check those things, are you going to stand on it or something?

Reminds me of VW dealer commercials where they jump on their doors to prove how rock solid their construction is, and of course they end up being last in actual dependability :-).
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Old 07-27-14, 03:14 PM   #17
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Top tip: sit in a car you're interested in, grab the front center tunnel (where the cup holders are) with both hands (one on either side) and try to move it side to side. In some cars (Dodge/Chrysler, Mazda) it will actually move, others (Honda) it remains rock solid.
The Altima and Pathfinder will move violently from side to side.
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Old 07-27-14, 05:26 PM   #18
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^^^ I rented a Yukon and that was one of the biggest complaints I had on it.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ClassicSC3 View Post
The 95 Lexus fit n finish is still so good that I see why Lexus engineering was and has been clearly on top of their game, set, Match!
L-Finesse while looking aesthetically more modern and fluid also brought with it cheaper materials and poorer assembly resulting in a slipping reliability primarily with the MY2006-2010 L-Finesse models. After the major recalls and natural disasters Lexus vaulted back with the CT, LFA and 4GS. They've been on a roll once again since
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Old 07-27-14, 06:25 PM   #20
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All Lexuses, AFAIK, are J-Vinned or Made in Japan and I really appreciate this aspect in my 95 Sc. Timeless quality and fit-n-finish that really lasts well!
Most, but not all. RX's sold in the U.S. are now almost all sourced from the Canadian plant, VIN with a 2-.

And starting soon, ES will move to Georgetown, Kentucky along side the Camry and Avalon.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Hoovey2411 View Post
L-Finesse while looking aesthetically more modern and fluid also brought with it cheaper materials and poorer assembly resulting in a slipping reliability primarily with the MY2006-2010 L-Finesse models. After the major recalls and natural disasters Lexus vaulted back with the CT, LFA and 4GS. They've been on a roll once again since
I think it was more design than materials that was crap about L finesse. The CT I owned was nothing stellar inside. Eventually things started to creak and moan a bit.

The current Lexus and Toyota crop have better designs inside. Materials are about the same but they have a better design.

Nothing is as brutal as GM stuff from that era. The CTS was horrid inside, Buick Lucerne was crap and the Escalade was cheap.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by spwolf View Post
depends on the cost of the car of course... lots of japanese cars preffer to use flimsier plastics but then their mechanics are rock solid. Flex on the centre tunel can be done on almost any japanese vehicle, not sure why exactly people check those things, are you going to stand on it or something?

Reminds me of VW dealer commercials where they jump on their doors to prove how rock solid their construction is, and of course they end up being last in actual dependability :-).
Unfortunately, spwolf is correct. Durability and solidness in one area often turns out to be cheapness in another. The 2Gen Acura RL is one of the very few cars I've seen that did both the skin and what's under the skin well, and the result?........it didn't sell.

At the other extreme, of course, were many of the pre-buyout Chrysler products, which had relatively poor build-quality almost everywhere. Fortunately, much of that changed with the buyout and Fiat's takeover.
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Old 07-27-14, 06:52 PM   #23
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I think it was more design than materials that was crap about L finesse. The CT I owned was nothing stellar inside. Eventually things started to creak and moan a bit.

The current Lexus and Toyota crop have better designs inside. Materials are about the same but they have a better design.

Nothing is as brutal as GM stuff from that era. The CTS was horrid inside, Buick Lucerne was crap and the Escalade was cheap.
Design is subjective so that's matter of opinion. Wasn't all cheap, but there were corners cut that were uncharacteristically no Lexus like. Things like the '10+ RX and GX center console plastics, 2007 LS interior door handle material before they switched to padded leather, 2007-2009 ES steering wheel bezel material would rip/fade, ES interior chrome door trim would rub off easily, 2IS while the materials were better, gaps between the dash and center stack were evident though fine tuned in the latter years.

I've found the CT to be assembled well, but because of the limited sound insulation, buzzy I4 and stiff suspension it tends to creak and moan more over time.

2009 Cobalt and 2010 Caliber I had as loaners once when a deer decided to play chicken with my car a few years back. Very VERY unpleasant little vehicles . Not a fan of those era cars
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Old 07-27-14, 07:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovey2411
I've found the CT to be assembled well, but because of the limited sound insulation, buzzy I4 and stiff suspension it tends to creak and moan more over time.
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
The CT I owned was nothing stellar inside. Eventually things started to creak and moan a bit.
The most likely reason that both of you noticed creaks in the CT's structure over time is that the car's low stance, short wheelbase, and limited up and down suspension-travel (which is often a problem in low-stance vehicles) tends to stiffen the ride, send numerous sharp impacts through the suspension/tires into the unibody and cabin, and loosen things up over time. That can also happen over time in softer-riding vehicles of questionable build quality, but not as likely. Our lousy (and deteriorating) roads and pavement don't help much either, though, Jill, I know you're across the border in Canada where the road maintenenace may (?) be a little better....I don't know.

Hoovey....as far as buzzy I-4s go, with the liquid-filled engine-mounts used on many of today's cars, vibrations from the 4-cylinders aren't usually as noticeable as the noise levels when revved. The hydraulic fluid in the mounts tends to absorb most of the physical buzzes and shakes....but not necessarily the noise, which is what the underhood insulation pad I mention in my reviews is supposed to address, though to all pads do it effectively. In fact, Toyota, to their credit (if my memory is correct) was the company that first perfected liquid-filled mounts.

One thing on the CT that truly impressed me, though, (since I did a full-review of one) was the NuLuxe artificial leather upholstery that Lexus put in it. When reviewing the CT, I had just come off reviewing some relatively expensive upmarket German products which, IMO, had truly junk artificial leather (or just simple plain vinyl)....at twice the CT's price. The CT's NuLuxe was so convincing that it was truly difficult, even with smell, to tell it from most of the grades of genuine leather that Lexus was also using at the time.

Overall, though, I felt the CT was simply too small, unrefined, and noisy, and stiff-riding to be a proper Lexus. It was, in many ways, simply a small Toyota hybrid hatchback with nice seat-material and a gimmicky mouse-controller.


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2009 Cobalt and 2010 Caliber I had as loaners once when a deer decided to play chicken with my car a few years back. Very VERY unpleasant little vehicles . Not a fan of those era cars
The Caliber, especially, was the subject of automotive jokes, just like Hyundai and Kia had been in the 1980s and 90s.
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Old 07-27-14, 08:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Hoovey2411 View Post
Design is subjective so that's matter of opinion. Wasn't all cheap, but there were corners cut that were uncharacteristically no Lexus like. Things like the '10+ RX and GX center console plastics, 2007 LS interior door handle material before they switched to padded leather, 2007-2009 ES steering wheel bezel material would rip/fade, ES interior chrome door trim would rub off easily, 2IS while the materials were better, gaps between the dash and center stack were evident though fine tuned in the latter years.

I've found the CT to be assembled well, but because of the limited sound insulation, buzzy I4 and stiff suspension it tends to creak and moan more over time.

2009 Cobalt and 2010 Caliber I had as loaners once when a deer decided to play chicken with my car a few years back. Very VERY unpleasant little vehicles . Not a fan of those era cars
That Cobalt was a horrible car. The only interiors by GM worth mentioning are the current Cadillac series of cars and some of the full size SUVs. The Corvette is pretty cool overall.
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Old 07-28-14, 01:05 AM   #26
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The trim on my C class is the same as that of the GLK, not in terms of the rubber lining up, but in terms of the dull weathered look. A simple coat of Back to Black makes a huge different.
Try WIPE NEW...stuff is great....lasts for months!


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Old 07-28-14, 08:36 AM   #27
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What would it take for Toyota to get back to the suppliers who supplied the materials for the 90s Lexus models?











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Old 07-28-14, 08:45 AM   #28
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What would it take for Toyota to get back to the suppliers who supplied the materials for the 90s Lexus models?











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It would take lots of deregulation, chemicals used in yesterday plastics and paints are considered harmful to the environment. The same substances that kept materials looking mint are now banned by groups such as the epa...
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Old 07-28-14, 08:50 AM   #29
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It would take lots of deregulation, chemicals used in yesterday plastics and paints are considered harmful to the environment. The same substances that kept materials looking mint are now banned by groups such as the epa...
yup, was gonna say that... "we're the govt and we're here to help"
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Old 07-28-14, 09:28 AM   #30
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It would take lots of deregulation, chemicals used in yesterday plastics and paints are considered harmful to the environment. The same substances that kept materials looking mint are now banned by groups such as the epa...
Indeed.

Yet the EPA or other equivalent agencies don't seem to have a problem with all the trans-fat and hydrogenated oil rich food, amongst god knows what that is all over the shelves these days which are going straight into our stomachs..
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Old 07-28-14, 09:28 AM
 
 
 
 
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