rxonmymind

No no no. Not ANOTHER F sport model. Lexus will truly have lost their way. Not everything need to be F'd. Would like to see ONE model not be F sport. They have plenty in their stables that already are.

Vladi

Not that anything is wrong with your desire for proper LS-F trim but I don't think it would accomplish much. Performance in cars like S or LS is just a bragging right or another step up from "regular" models. That's why Bentleys and Royces have ridiculous amount of horsepower, not because its useful cause it ain't, but to give people another segment to climb to. Segment where the horsepower just reinforces the badge and the badge is the key selling point in that segment. Mercedes Benz is the only mass production manufacturer that can play in that segment with its AMG offerings for S and CL and soon S Coupe Convertible, that's how tough it is to break into that spotlight. Even their Maybach has failed because badge doesn't carry the weight and shine conservative people who own this segment look for.

Lexus would be no different if they decide to compete there. L badge just cant compete with high end MB let alone the Bentley and RR no matter how much innovation, horsepower, whatever you throw at the buyers for the same money they will still chose FWD based Bentley instead of cutting edge LS-F.

But you have to start somewhere in order to achieve that status in the market right? I think completely LS reskinned brand new model name that doesn't share any body parts except the platform with LS will be a proper first step into that direction. Making an exclusive club inside the Lexus to differentiate regular Lexus customers from ultra Lexus customers is the first baby step. They had that opportunity with LS600h, it could have been something much bigger if they had catered to those people like AAA bank clients but instead they have just dropped the entire car once Toyota have achieved marketing credibility with its Hybrid technology. Same thing will happen with fuel cell tech in next LS, once marketing department achieves to make it the next big thing they will just silently drop it by not investing one bit into it. LS600h did not receive a single update on hybrid powertrain cause Toyota couldn't care less to play in the $150K market and they probably don't know how to act within that circle either.

chikoo

"If a car depreciates rapidly, it is an indication that it isn't very good"

My take on this viewpoint is that the German cars esp the S class and the 7 series carries with it the stigma of "wtf" when trying to get it repaired outside of warranty. In most cases nobody knows how to diagnose it. Which leads to a lower resale value because used car buyers ARE in the market to save money, not spend more when it is time to repair.

situman

Buyers of flagship cars, most of the time, arent just looking for a nice and good car. Many want that wow factor, while the F model may not sell in numbers, it gets people talking. It is just another high tech nice car. Can I afford such a model? No. But it certainly is nice to have something I can aspire to and be excited about. Anyways, to each their own. Lexus' product decisions seems to go against the grain of what the users of this site wants. I happen to like everything they put out and are doing the last few years, except for the non F sport NX, nose is too long and pointy.

Vladi

No doubt LS-F would find its share of customers especially if they go completely wild like you said in your post. It would be a sweet ride, very Lexus unlike which again would bring in people that didn't identify themselves with Lexus of early '00s.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i agree with the "wow" factor part. but again using w222 as example, i don't think the s63 (from performance point of view) give the s class audience as much "wow" compared to the tech and other design incorporated in the car. so why i absolute think the lsf will add some value, it shouldn't be their primary focus or goal.

ok i think i start to get a little bit about what you are weighing on, but at the same time i question the metric for that merit. to me it's like trying to find something that lexus is good at and make that a metric.

i would challenge anyone who thinks lexus is not best for its value (so we are on the same page there), but the way i feel about the industry and public perception, a success of a flagship probably has less to do with its reliability over time.

if you greatly discount the market presence and sales of the flagship, then imho you have shifted so much away from the important things that there is nothing to argue about. even according to what you said, lexus lost its crown on flagship sales and that's with them mostly selling swb which is easily 20k cheaper, it's not a good thing

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Why call it more of the same when you don't know anything about it?

Its as if the OP is wishing for the LS to fail.

AJT123

First of all, WHEN.THE.F are we going to see the new LS? I have heard this month at the Tokyo Auto Show, but Lexus is being so tight-lipped, I can't even find a rendering.

I'm practically foaming at the mouth in anticipation. I certainly think Lexus has the capability for a class-comptetive/leading LS....just look at the 400 and 430; they were tops in objective comparison tests almost every time. The question is, are they going to actually follow through again? We know Lexus has the engineering beans.

Saying that, the competition is stiff and fiercer than ever. If I had 100k I'd buy an S550, no questions asked, wham bam thank you, ma'am. Agreed 100% that 90% of buyers just drive them for 3 years and trade up, but the remaining 10%? Would I buy a 5 year old LS460? Abso-freaking-lutely! (My 430 was 8 years old when I bought it.). A 5 year old S Class (or, basically one that's out of warranty)? Never, in a million years.

Btw, how are the quality and reliability ratings on the W222 so far? I'm usually up on these things but have been busy. I have heard there have been quite a few bugs. However, the W221 was decently reliable (at least compared to the DISASTER W220). Anyone up on these things know? There is so much tech in the W222 just thinking about what could go wrong makes me nervous.

Superes350

Depreciation of a car is not an automatic indication that it isn't very good, especially with a vehicle that is targeted toward the wealthy who will be switching cars every 1-3 years.
Mercedes and BMW are notorious for this because of the target audience, but it happens to most manufacturers and their high-end models. Only a small portion of people can afford a $100,000+ car. Once those people decide they are ready for the next model, the target audience is one with much lower income, even with it having a warranty. Once the warranty is gone and the less wealthy audience gets rid of the car, only a few people are going to want the car. Each time the price drops quite a bit.

The same thing happens with the LS460, by your logic this must be an indication that the LS460 isn't very good.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i say it's too early to tell, but so far i feel they are begin typical first year s class. i think first year w221 had a few issues too and by 09 the car became pretty solid.

the s63 seems to have some shut down issues

AJT123

Man oh man, what I'd do for a 1991 (last MY) 560SEL. The W140s used to be my favs (and look the best), but those cars were just overcomplicated. I see so many W126s here in car-capital-of-the-world LA and hardly see any W140s. . Makes me sad.

spwolf

sure it is, but when it comes to S class, buyers dont care since they lease.

If S class had LS reliability, they would be worth more at resale.

Superes350

As I said, the LS460 has depreciated quite a bit. By your logic, this means that the LS460 is not reliable and is not a good car. Sound right to you? Expensive cars depreciate a lot for the exact reason I stated. Even low-production cars like Lamborghinis and Ferraris suffer this fate.

Mr. Burns

It's depreciation relative to peers.

The S550 and 7 series depreciate much faster than the LS460. That's the point here, not the simple fact of depreciation.

Tantrix

if u guys want a 70k hybrid that gets 400 hp then just get a 2015 genesis 5.0. 42k for ultimate 5.0 plus 30k to spend on gas ! thats like free mpg !