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Mr. Burns, that was indeed for LS FCV... weight is very good since FCV system is very heavy... it would mean that next LS is much lighter than today... I saw this article a while ago, i think it might be from last year... camo article is newer and it mentions V6... too bad i cant read rest of it :-)
If that is indeed the real thing why did they cut off the rear window frame so much? To make it more coupe like? Its really a bad job, car looks a lot shorter and lost elegancy.
That fastback look in the profile render looks a bit like the ES and Ford Fusion/Mondeo. The C pillar is huge because the roof starts sloping down much further back than usual to maintain rear headroom while still getting a coupe-like roofline. Brave design touches by Lexus, especially the downwards then upwards curve on the doors like on the Mazda 6.
I hope they go all out on the interior and use the same template as the LF-LC. The current LFA-inspired dashboards with horizontal layers and smooth curves still look good but it's time for something new.
2017 Lexus LS to have V6 GR turbo engine as base, instead of V8. It seems this engine is going into many RWD vehicles that Lexus makes, because they are planning annual capacity of 100k... so probably even some versions of IS and RC will have it, together with more obvious GS and LS.
Toyota order to respond to strengthening of fuel consumption regulations, promote the downsizing by the turbo charger equipped with a large engine. 2017 was introduced the V-type 6-cylinder (V6) direct-injection turbo engine car exhaust amount 3500cc in prospect. To replace the V8 engine, such as luxury car "Lexus LS" in V6, and low fuel consumption.
2017 Lexus LS to have V6 GR turbo engine as base, instead of V8. It seems this engine is going into many RWD vehicles that Lexus makes, because they are planning annual capacity of 100k... so probably even some versions of IS and RC will have it, together with more obvious GS and LS.
The engine is being launched in 2017, a year after the LS?
LS is launching late 2016 anyway, so who knows... these kinds of reports are not that accurate... but it does match what dealer employees told us here since last year, that turbo V6 and V8 are coming.
I would guess that LS would be launching pad for it, and then spread through RWD range as it gets MY updates.
To me best part is that it is going to over 15% of Lexus production... means a lot of models will get it, not just base LS.
LS is launching late 2016 anyway, so who knows... these kinds of reports are not that accurate... but it does match what dealer employees told us here since last year, that turbo V6 and V8 are coming.
I would guess that LS would be launching pad for it, and then spread through RWD range as it gets MY updates.
To me best part is that it is going to over 15% of Lexus production... means a lot of models will get it, not just base LS.
Well thats a good thing, I always say there is so no such thing as being late to the party if you play your cards right but missing the party is real.
I'm more concerned with hybrid implementation and what's the deal in that department. Premium badges are moving into PHEV territory quite fast, price of entry is quite high right now but if they choose they can take it down no doubt. Toyota has to skip at least one generation of PHEV in order to be competitive.
Well thats a good thing, I always say there is so no such thing as being late to the party if you play your cards right but missing the party is real.
I'm more concerned with hybrid implementation and what's the deal in that department. Premium badges are moving into PHEV territory quite fast, price of entry is quite high right now but if they choose they can take it down no doubt. Toyota has to skip at least one generation of PHEV in order to be competitive.
nobody buys these PHEVs... they are PR vehicles, actual sales are tiny.
Only PHEV that sells well is Mitsu Outlander, worldwide - I think it sells something like 40k-50k per year and it is capacity constrained. Most of the sales are in 2-3 countries that have huge tax benefits for PHEVs... all these german PHEVs together sell very poorly. Well, I think poor is a bad word since they are not supposed to sell, they are PR vehicles that are supposed to show investors how they have latest tech. Same goes for most of their hybrid offerings which are usually quietly discontinued.
For instance, in Germany difference between diesel and PHEV is $26k for same equipment. $23k difference between petrol and phev. They use same engine, PHEV gets 87hp rear motor (much less hardware than Lexus models btw, except for the battery) and 27 miles of EV power... for $23k extra. Without incentives in taxes, nobody is getting that.
Given the recent leak of the refreshed LX, I want to revisit this topic. If you remember the Japanese mag had this render of the refreshed LX:
As can be seen clearly from the above, it was an illustration, based on an existing photograph. However much of the basic graphic design was based in reality, just not as precisely executed as the real thing:
We had a similar leak with the Lexus RX, note the backgroud images are dead on, and an illustration that seems to be based on them:
So where does that leave the LS?
So far the best LS "rendering leak" we've seen is this:
The larger rendering of the blue car is clearly a guess-based illustration. But what about the image in the top left corner?
Can anyone confirm if this is a photoshop?
Could that be a leak of the actual LS, from internal material that details its fuel cell powertrain? The side profile graphics of the larger rendering of the blue car mimic those of the silver car (down to the wheels), it could be that the artist is basing his rendering on a leaked image of only the side profile. He seems to be guessing the front end graphics from what he can see in the side profile as well.
Here is the front end zoomed in:
And the artist rendering:
Here is the image compared to the existing LS:
The biggest difference is the more steeply raked C-pillar, for a more fast-back roofline. This has been a consistent rumour for the next LS. The new door handles appear similar to those on the Tesla Model S, which may end up being reality as well considering Lexus may want to position the fuel cell version to compete with the Model S. There are also some Mirai influences in the lower rear door graphics, which is also entirely possible.
Length seems to be about the same, wheelbase appears marginally longer on the new car. This is supported by the mule images, note the extensions made to the rockers at the base of the car, (though this is a mule of the LWB version of the car versus the SWB version in the images above):
So I guess the question is, are we looking at an actual image of the side profile of the 2017 Lexus LS:
Also to touch on the interior, I think there will be heavy inspiration from the LF-LC concept:
Maybe not all the LCDs, but the stitching on the door panels, seats, etc...
I am sorry, but what I highlighted in bold, I greatly disagree with. This is not in any way representative of the next LS and I will soon explain why.
Please don't take what I said the wrong way, as I greatly respect you Mr. Burns. My concerns are strictly regarding the illustration and nothing else. Everything on your recent posts about this, have been very excellent and you clearly put a lot of hard work into that.
However, the comparisons with LX and RX illustrations are not quite accurate. The timing of when these LS FCEV renders were crafted and published, is far from being parallel to that of the RX and LX.
Those RX shots from a Japanese magazine, may be that of an actual prototype in Japan during 2014. The 2016 LX was reportedly first shown to Lexus personnel, in the form of these leaked shots, on September 18, 2014. These photographs or CGI files were taken/developed around 11-12 months ago. The amount of time required between freeze and production for Land Cruiser updates, is around 2 years and 18 months on the low end.
Something tells me based on my deep JLR development knowledge and my own rudimentary knowledge of Toyota development methods, that if one visited Toyota in December 2013 and had 100% access to every future development (like Akio Toyoda), both the 2016 LX and RX would be sitting there as clay replicas.
Not to go off on an off-topic tangent, but the 2016 LX and RX were basically shown to Japanese journalists or artists ahead of launch. In many instances, the artists are forced to recreate what they were shown from memory via (life-size prototypes or photographs of design) and present them for publication. This happens across several automotive firms.
This photoshopped 2016 RX was definitely the result of the artist/illustrator being shown an actual prototype, as it was too damn accurate to be an insider merely spilling details. Someone had to have firsthand knowledge of that production design. The white and black RX in the Japanese magazine, is (as I said above) likely an actual JDM RHD prototype from December 2014. The blue illustration below it is the only non-genuine example.
I looked for this photo for 5 billion years and never really found it for months!
Both the LX and RX were rendered just 6-8 months, but not nearly 2 years before market launch. The third-party 5LS rendering is too far out in time to be accurate, that even if the 5LS design was frozen between a late 2013 and mid-2014 window, 99.9% of people outside of Lexus, did not see it during that time. The first publicised rumblings about the 5LS design, aside from Alain Uyettenhoven in July 2014, was that of rayaans' source in November 2014.
Many times in the past, the LS has been rendered incorrectly, even terribly inaccurate close to reveal. Look at a terrible example of the current model back in 2003-05, as well as 2011 illustrations of the 2013 model year facelift or "2014 LS".
Renders of the "Next LS" from June 2011.
The most accurate of them all, which isn't saying much. The 2013 LS was finalised by Q1 2011, so this April 2011 render was more on point.
That LS FCEV render is clearly a random guess at the design, which only will become more accurate as prototypes begin public rounds and it gets closer launch. I've seen a few magazines take a crack at the X360 XJ saloon, but know very well where everything stands on that front and how they are extremely off-base.
That LS FCEV design is terribly not befitting of an S-Class competitor and I trust that the final design is not like that in any regard. This is actually the first and only render of the 5LS, so one should take it with a grain of salt. Lexus is one brand, where renderings are greatly outdone by the genuine article.
In not really being a direct Lexus insider, I am not really in the position to an "absolute source of reputable accuracy", but have taken notes from past Lexus examples of Japanese renderings. I'll try to provide more past renders for the 4LS from 2003-2005, but will mention that only a few came close. One of them from early 2004 was interesting close, that it gives away that Lexus had already signed off on the 2007 LS design by March 2004. Much of that was designed by 2003. The 5LS is taking much longer, which equals longer lead times.
Last edited by Carmaker1; 07-06-15 at 03:04 PM.
Reason: Sorry, keep changing wording and my tenses, which makes for a jumbled message,
Next-Generation Lexus LS to Debut at Tokyo Motor Show in October
Motoring Australia reports that the next-generation Lexus LS will debut at the Tokyo Motor Show in October, and will share engine options with the upcoming LC coupe:
Lexus insiders say the LC 500’s V8 will develop around 350kW (469 hp). Heading the coupe line-up (at least until an LC-F hottie surfaces) will be an LC 500h version which will employ a V8 hybrid combination pumping out upwards of 405kW (543 hp).
Apart from upping the ante on luxury, refinement and safety, the new LS is tipped to introduce the latest version of Toyota’s autonomous driving technology.
Introducing the LS in Tokyo this year makes a certain kind of sense, though I’m surprised to see it before the production version of the LF-LC coupe. Another point to consider is that the timing doesn’t fit with Lexus USA general manager Jeff Bracken’s announcement earlier this year:
“In addition to the four new or mid-cycle product refreshes that I revealed at the show this morning, there will also be an all-new generation introduction later this year, a special edition later in the year like the Crafted Line, and we’re going to drop turbo engines into multiple vehicles.”
The all-new generation model was obviously the fourth-generation RX, so unless the product rollout has changed significantly since January, something’s not adding up.
(I’ve always liked the idea of the next-generation LS debuting in Detroit due to the history there, but a safer bet at this point would be for the production LF-LC will be shown at next year’s show.)
numbers seems very suspect:
1. LS will NOT have high revving RC-F engine as base... that makes no sense at all.
2. Hybrid will not have 74hp more than base for 2 reasons:
- Currently Lexus adds 46hp max battery output (from memory) ... going lion can add 10-15hp max.
- Usually hybrid engine will have atkinson cycle which removes some top end hp for big fuel savings.
06-27-15, 07:08 PM
