gengar

So you want a 550+hp, 40mpg Lexus LS hybrid that costs around $100k. Good luck with that.

BTW, go sit in a P85 and it'll make the $15k difference between that and an LS600hL seem utterly inconsequential.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

that is a dream. even at 120k i think it's a dream

mmarshall

i think it makes a lot of sense. An LS600h, unlike a Tesla, can be driven anywhere without having to worry about plug-in recharging after a couple of hundred miles (or less). There are also a lot more gas stations across the country than charging stations....unless you want to use regular household current to recharge, which can take anywhere from four hours to all night.

Superes350

Honestly I have never seen Lexus as truly being one of the forefront manufacturers. Yes they have designed some cool things that have spread to other cars, like using HDD for nav, but that is a rare occasion. For the most part they seem to be very conservative with the technology and go for a more reliable approach that allows their cars to be worth being owned outside of a warranty, something that is considered ro be financial suicide with some of the Mercedes and BMW vehicles. Same thing for the interior styling. The 2005 and 2006 LS460 were largely flaunted as having an outdated interior compared to even its American counterparts, let alone the European models. This goes even further with the engine platforms, too. They were all used for a very long time. The 4.6L engine in the Lexus has been greatly outclassed for a while now, yet Lexus has continued to shove it into their top-tier model. Same for the 2GR-FE that has been shoved in multiple cars since its debut.

The exception to all of this is the LFA, which is an absolutely amazing machine. I really hope Lexus does something with the 2017 that will finally make it competitive again.

blacksun

I didn't state the proposed LS600h should cost $100k. I only mentioned that price point to demonstrate the current LS600h performance/pricing structure isn't competitive.

I have sat in the Tesla and agree the interior is cheap crap. But it is outselling LS-h by a large margin because it offers the performance of a sports car, the room of a mid-size sedan and has the green credentials of a Prius. Not because the interior is nicer than the competition.

blacksun

Your range anxiety argument is valid because obviously the Tesla doesn't work for every single situation. However most people don't drive anywhere near the 250+ mile range on a regular basis so it's not a concern for most. People typically don't buy cars for features they rarely use. For example, I'm not buying and driving around in a minivan all year just because I'll have family come visit for the holidays and need a vehicle that can accommodate them. That's what Avis is for.

I don't think it makes sense to spend $40k more than the price of a LS460 for 40 additional hp and a 2mpg improvement in fuel economy when there are alternatives. But that's just me. Given the low historical take rate for the LS hybrid, I'm know I'm not alone in my thinking. Tesla was just one such alternative used as an example, don't get hung up on it.

rxonmymind

Take the technology they've learned from Prius & LFA and pair them flawlessly. You'll curb stomp Chevy Volt and give the Porsche Panamera hybrid a heartburn, while sticking a finger in the eye of MB with their horrible stop & start technology. There, all three slayed in a single swipe.

Dave600hL

The LS is going to have to do something special if it wants to convert people. I never thought I would buy a Benz, but the S is just awesome.

Works great for me, so I don't know what you are talking about?

spwolf

dude, MB currently sells 2nd tier autobrake tech - a fact.

What you are watching is PR video from MB that you can not buy. What you can buy is not up to standards set by Volvo, Subaru, Infiniti and Toyota.

This has been proven by various different tests, from EuroNCAP to Autobild that tested latest C-class and it failed to stop hitting the pedestrian despite having top end €2500 auto-brake system.

Just because you want something ot be true, it doesnt make it true.

I am posting this again... AMS confirmed that they used top spec C class pre-crash system with all the options.

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Mr Bond

Agree, and this is also most likely to happen. I think everybody knows that Lexus LS won´t have any performance or driving dynamics worth mentioning. It never had in the past and will probably never have in the future. Just like the RX. But the new RX shows that they do have the courage to change in terms of design. And I think that Lexus has a great opportunity right now since both 7 series and Audi A8 are just plain boring and the S class is the conservative and elegant one. This segment actually "needs" Lexus new design languange.

Superes350

Just curious, what is it that you classify as boring when it comes to the A8 and 7-series? Is it the driving experience? The interior or exterior? If the looks of the interior or exterior, what specifically? I think the challenge they face is with their demographics and achieving a balance between luxury and appeasement of their target audience. There are quite a few people in the 6th gen ES forum complaining about the more aggressive 2016 ES350 styling, though I personally think it looks far better, and they believe that their complaints will somehow change the way Lexus styles their cars.

blacksun

Dave - You have had both the LS600h and S-class, what did you like about the MB that lead you to that brand?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

they are two different generation of cars imho. since lexus only did a facelift on the LS in 2013, i think as of now the s550 is big leap ahead of the LS

spwolf

In pretty much every way... that goes for competition as well. I dont think the gulf between S class and everything else was ever bigger in past 20 years or so.

blacksun

Regardless I assume he had cross-shopped both cars at the time of his MB purchase. What I want to know is what he liked about the S-class. That might help us understand what areas the LS should focus on developing.