mmarshall

Yep.....couldn't agree more. What works in Germany and on the Autobahn (and even on the smooth roads in the southern U.S.) is often simply not suited to Pothole Palace in Northern U.S. cities and in the Snow belt.

gyrase321

The idea of making sedans work like SUVs, and SUVs work like sedans never made sense to me. Buy a proper sedan if you want to drive a sedan...and buy a proper SUV if you want an SUV. It seems like those who want a jack-of-all trades luxury car really can't afford the true luxury...which is to buy the proper vehicle for the proper occasion. Hence they make compromises. You need at least 2 cars, maybe more. That's true luxury.

chikoo

You describe the attributes of a performance car, and use that to define luxury?

Actually a FWD is a better luxury vehicle. Why?
1. Luxury cars are driven by chauffeurs
2. Passengers are in the rear
3. This allows for the much needed separation of drivetrain NVH, keeping it to the driver, and isolating the passengers in the rear.
How about that?

DFGeneer

Agreed!

I would add that FWD with its more pronounced front-biased center of mass gives inherent high-speed strait-line stability, which is another attribute to luxurious drive.

Mr Bond

Performance is a part of the luxury. Not how fast it drives on the Ring, but how smooth and refined it delivers the power. A FWD only car can´t handle much more than 250 hp. But on the other hand, many luxury cars are driven in the cities and does not need "power" at all. So basically Lexus could build a FWD LS with a 4 cyl 1,8 l engine and still call it luxury, or can they ? I think there is a point where you cant call it luxury any more, its not only about comfort.

chikoo

Performance is not part of luxury. FWD is a challenge to accomplish and that is why RWD was a natural choice, up until when technology is getting better to have more powerful FWD vehicles. Case in point
2016 Acura RLX: 310 hp, 272 lb-ft, and more...
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/lists/1505-the-top-10-most-powerful-fwd-cars/

Mr Bond

Audi had the A8 with the 2.8 193 hp V6 FWD once upon a time, needless to say : they dont have it anymore

chikoo

Yes. Sadly, the old wives tales and misconceptions are quite powerful to dismiss them easily.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

What are you talking about? Isn't there already an exclusive Lexus consumer survey for those who have purchased vehicles before? They get to share their opinions about past present and future.

I forgot the specific name they call it but I've seen CL members talk about this survey before.


Just because you don't get exactly what you want, doesn't mean everyone around you is failing.

Dave600hL

One of the main reasons for a FWD is the increase in fuel economy. RWD's tend handle better than FWD, not to mention that the more power you have the more likely the front wheel drive cars will have problems, they are inherently weak. I have had FWD cars and I hate the way the power is transferred, RWD just feels better.

If one of the big car makers went FWD, I would steer well clear of it, but that is just my opinion.

chikoo

FWD:
Better isolation of NVH from rear passengers
Better fuel economy
Better handling in winter season

RWD:
Better performance on a race track

While we talk about performance, mid-engine or even rear engines are known for better performance. Why am I not seeing any of those in a luxury vehicle?

Dave600hL

I think you will we are in the territory of diminishing returns when we speak about NVH on rear wheel and front wheel drive cars. NVH is a non-issue in top tier cars and feul ecconomy is a non issue as well for people who are buying these cars.

So that just leaves all the downsides for FWD cars. Not being able to put high powered engines in a FWD. Also you talk about NVH, but FWD cars are terribly rough when accelerating. Not good for a luxury car.

chikoo

Good points. That is what I was trying to smoke out - that RWD does not define luxury- rather at their price level they can choose whatever technology works for them, and the fact that all high performance cars are RWD works in their favor to be associated with, as compared to FWD which was developed for better fuel economy and thus used for cheap cars.

spwolf

well, pretty sure that in Europe landscape changed completely when it comes to fuel economy, even in luxury vehicles. Maybe 10 mpg itself is not a problem when gas is again reasonable at least, but problem comes from both taxes and resale values - taxes significantly increase the price and resale values are laughable. As result, big engined petrol vehicles are dying breed, heck petrol (and not diesel) luxury vehicles are dying breed... unless we are talking about bottom of the market where petrols are cheaper than diesels, or extreme high end which is these days very low numbers in Europe (AMG/Brabus/M petrols). You can find 3 year old Brabus S class for less money than standard S350 diesel and price difference back then would buy you a nice Lexus.

Dave600hL

Is fuel economy the reason for the bad re-sale? Or is it something else?
To me re-sale means nothing. It is the people who are willing to buy new that concerns me. And there is still plenty of people who are buying big engines cars new.