G Star

iTrader: (2)

People think market disruption on the level of the 1LS is a variable Lexus can control, and expect the 5LS to do just as well if not better. The reasoning I've seen many times over for this argument is because the time between the release of 4LS and 5LS is 10 years, as if more time = better car .

All reason just goes out the window, the emotion was exaggerated in the first few days of release. Its calmed down now though.

peteharvey

I think that Lexus gambled [and lost] so much money on gasoline-electric hybrids, and hydrogen fuel cell powered electric vehicles, and now the President Akio Toyoda has to head the electric vehicles EV division, so so much of TMC's money is poured into R&D for "alternative" drive lines, that it doesn't leave much money nor manpower left to develop too many variations of small capacity turbos.

Decades ago, TMC would have in-line sixes and V6's in multiple capacities like: 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.3, 3.5 and even 4.0L, but nowadays because so much money has been diverted to alternative drivelines, there's just not much money nor manpower left to develop too many different capacities, let alone "halo" marketing V8 TT's for the 5LS...

Bogglo

There are many reason to have hope that there is still a chance of V8 in the LS.
especially when you look at what that 5.0 liter engine has gone through all the way from the ISF in 08 with just 416hp to the GSF and RCF with 467hp then to the LC with 471hp. and remember that the LC was initially suppose to debut with 467hp. so we can speculate maybe there will be that same 5.0 before the year runs out rounded up to 500hp "just saying" the only thing is how they would name that one . I think Lexus still have another big news before the year runs out. and there might be some rebadging.

now let me go say a prayer for the GS and pray they don't discontinue it and pray there is a second generation GSF with some kind of V8 so my dream of owning a GSF is more realistic.

davyjordi

those are some lofty expectations you have there with the gs and the gsf in particular selling so poorly.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Just wait a few years for a CPO GS F to hit the market. Dream >>> Reality

Bogglo

yeah that's the plan, but with the continuation of the V8 then people would be willing to upgrade making the CPO even more affordable. I'm really looking at that GSf the day I saw it person I know I wanted one.

LeX2K

Interesting I never thought of things to this extent. Although I don't think overall Toyota lost money on their gas-electric platforms, could be wrong. Toyota did say at one point that all their cars would become hybrids that doesn't look likely anymore.

Sulu

I don't think so. Toyota is not known to gamble, at least not over a long period of time. The fuel cell vehicles may be losing money but the Mirai has only just come on the market. Hybrids have been on the market for 20 years now and I have no doubt that they are profitable, otherwise Toyota would have gotten rid of them and/or tried something different 10 or so years ago.

I thought you were a fan of Toyota's hybrids?

Toyota is known to be (overly) cautious of late and will not release something until they are sure they will be "perfect" once released to the market. Perhaps the unintended acceleration problem has them being very cautious.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

This is still an issue? Most Toyota/Lexus's had their pedals cuts short, installed new software for brake override despite being on accelerator at the same time, and floor mats redesigned. Some new model (2013+) Lexus's started getting the accelerator floor pedals too, to further reduce anything getting caught under there.

Aron9000

Pretty much sums up how I feel. Other than Toyota taking a mulligan with the engine, the rest of the car looks great, inside and out.

gengar

Um, have you reviewed TMC's financials lately?


To be fair, Lexus/Toyota have been super conservative even prior to so-called "unintended acceleration".

CleanSC

No, it's not. And I question if it ever was.

His point was that Toyota might be a little more gun shy than before seeing as how the unintended acceleration "problem" was a huge ordeal for them.

peteharvey

Yes, you guys are right - TMC didn't make a financial loss.
I only meant that TMC lost/spent so much money on R&D in alternative engine formats like hybrids and hydrogen.
And now, the R&D has to be poured into electric vehicles.
Hence not as much money left for a huge assortment of capacities in small capacity turbos, compared to the 1980's and 90's when alternative engines under development didn't really exist.

And because Benz, VW/Porsche/Audi/, BMW, GM, Ford and Hyundai etc are all working hard on developing electric vehicles, maybe they see that small capacity turbos and internal combustion engines ICE's don't have a long life span?

TMC isn't just late to the party at adopting small capacity turbos, but they also don't have much of a range of small capacity turbo engines either.

Hybrids
I used to love hybrids for their flattish torque curve, and low fuel consumption.
However, in the end, it was the trunk space, and the effect of the extra weight on the dynamics.
Then because I do such little mileage/year, I would have to drive for xx number of years, before I could break even with the additional cost of the vehicle and the regular replacement batteries.

Nice to see that the forthcoming 2018 Camry has partly fixed the problem by repositioning the smaller yet more energy dense lithium ion [?] battery between the rear seat base and the fuel tank.
Because with such excellent fuel economy, the fuel tank on hybrids no longer have to be full capacity.
The use of more energy dense lithium ion [?] allows the battery to be sandwiched in.
This restore full trunk space, with a space saving tire for a deep trunk.
It also gives a lower center of gravity, and a smaller polar moment of inertia for faster yaw, and quicker steering response and changes in direction.




However, even with a compact lion battery sandwiched between the rear seat cushion and the fuel tank, I'm still concerned that hybrids have a tiny/miniscule electric vehicle EV only range.
If we want a decent EV only range, then the battery must once again be relocated to the area behind the rear seat back rest, and in between the rear wheels like the 330e, S Class & C350e plug-in hybrids PHEV's below - weight impacting on dynamics again.
When we think about it, a full electric vehicle like a Tesla Model S is only heavier again, but at least it has two trunks.
In a full electric vehicle, we'll end up with very fast linear acceleration, but compromised yaw; a front trunk, but the passenger cabin will lose 4 inches of vertical space to the batteries stored under the floor...

703

The problem with all these plug-in hybrids from merc, bmw, volve, audi etc is that they have very weak electric motors. EV only mode feels very sluggish. For example, the S500 e only has a 108hp electric motor, even the RX450 have a 165hp electric motor in the front axle alone.

mmarshall

Put in electric powerhouses under the hood, though, and you use up the available battery-power more quickly, shortening the range of a pure-electric or the all-electric (non-gas) range of a conventional hybrid. Not only that, but the more power an electric motor makes, the more heat it produces, and, without a cooling water-jacket like on a gas or diesel engine, you don't want underhood temperatures getting out of hand.

Trust the engineers. They know what they are doing......that's why they get paid such good salaries.